Arghh... shields combat mechanics!

[Handel]

Now, after a lot of play, I started to suspect the exact combat mechanics of "parry". Please someone to confirm if this is correct.
1. So it appears the shield actually is *absolutely* useless if you have only 1 enemy (like the arena battles). It is said the shield adds a second parry but it seems the shield works *only* for the second parry but not for the main parry. Which suggests all the shield related skills are useless if you have only 1 enemy.
2. Which suggests in all the battles against only 1 enemy - including against mini-bosses (Zant etc) the shields are actually harmful because they reduce the attack w/o helping the defense. And even vs more then one enemy it maybe is still better to use a shield with less attack penalty and less parry value instead of more penalty and more parry value.
3. On the same time the defensive combat skills seems to work *only* with the weapons parry - which means only for the first parry (not sure about this - needs testing)
4. And it is not clear but seems logical the weapon parry modifier to work only on the first (non-shield) parry. Still this needs a confirmation (easy be tested too)

[virumor]

I remember my fighter character parrying blows with her shield in the arena fights. So I believe even if you miss your first parry with the weapon, the shield gives you a second chance.

[Handel]

I remember my fighter character parrying blows with her shield in the arena fights. So I believe even if you miss your first parry with the weapon, the shield gives you a second chance.

Now that's is something really important. Wonder how to stage a fight to test it?

Edit: a similar topic on the german forum suggests there is only 1 parry per enemy (the second parry is used only if there is a second enemy) BUT the first parry is always the best parry - which is usually the shield, no matter the shield parry is listed as "second". It seems logical indeed. Still a confirmation will be good.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

So I believe even if you miss your first parry with the weapon, the shield gives you a second chance.

No, you don't need to "believe" it - it stands tright here in the shield description ! Read it !

Plus, you can get the special ability "shield fight" or how it is called from a trainer !

[Handel]

So I believe even if you miss your first parry with the weapon, the shield gives you a second chance.

No, you don't need to "believe" it - it stands tright here in the shield description ! Read it !

Plus, you can get the special ability "shield fight" or how it is called from a trainer !

Sorry but nowhere in the english description is mentioned the word "chance"; and I just google-translated a similar topic on the german forum - they talk there about a second parry being against a second enemy. But they do presume the best parry value - either weapon or shield is used against the first enemy no matter the shield is listed as "second".

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Well, I always understood it so that the shield provides a second parry. Nothing but that.

What the special ability provides - I don't quite know.

I can only think so fas as I understoo0d the underlying rules - and I'm far from perfect from that. Plus, that i don't measure any in-game incident against the rules set. I just play.

[Handel]

I appreciate you are helping the english players. And honestly the game is rather easy even on hard settings once you grasp the basic of the mechanics. It is just me who is trying to get to the bottom of the things

[Ergonpandilus]

Here's comparison between dodge and parry.

Dodge
+ Ranged attacks can be dodged
+ Weapon Modifier does not affect on dodge
+ May focus fully on weapon AT
+ Some attacks may ONLY be dodged
+ Can be used with ranged weapons

Parry
+ Only ½ effective encumbrance penalty
+ Weapon skill increases Parry
+ Another parry in battle round if wielding a shield
+ Bonus versus ranged attacks if shield

[Handel]

The difference between dodge and parry is straightforward. What I was interested in is the "second" parry opportunity provided by the shield. In the character stats screen there are two "parry" values listed when a shield is equipped and the parry provided by a shield is listed on a *second* place which means either the stats are not shown correctly or the shield is calculated only if there is a second parry used.
And there are three possible scenarios:
- when a char is attacked the weapon parry is used and if unsuccessful the char makes a second roll with the shield. I don't see much logic in it - it is much better to use the better value at first.
- when a char is attacked the better parry from both is used first and the lower parry value - second. Which leaves the question why then the better value is not always shown first (as the logic suggests)
- when the char is attacked the weapon parry is used first and the second parry from shield is used only if there is a second attack in the same round. It corresponds to the stats screen but is highly illogical. But again if I had 1$ every time an illogical decision was used in the computers games I would be real rich person.

[Ergonpandilus]

At least the engine determines between DV and PA and uses which ever is the higher (or is allowed to use), so IMO it should pick the highest PA value. That should be easy to check though.

But even if it always uses weapon parry first, shield is still very useful because it adds bonus against ranged attacks and gives second parry. There is lot of fights, where you are overwhelmed or you want to hold off your support (casters/archers) and only use one or two fighters to keep the enemies away.

I'll try it and tell the result.