virumor wrote:A sensible person doesn't react to empty words with violence. In real life, certain politicans insult other politicans (and their country) all the time, does this mean that this country should be invaded/bombed?
It's more like the little fly that's buzzing around your head. Of course, the thing is not important enough to even think twice about it, but at some point it'll annoy you just enough that you just kill it. And there are not many people who would feel sorry for the poor little fly or say that you are a violent person for killing it.
virumor wrote:Not to mention, the Gods have the opportunity to punish Ulwine for eternity when she's dead and her soul is at their disposal. The wisest course would've been to let the hero's party take her to justice.
Ulwine is just about finished at that point, so the final lightning is more like a sign from the gods to show our heroes that they did the right thing in fighting her and that the gods are looking with pleasure down upon them. So of course it wasn't necessary that they intervened, but to get the attention of "their tools" (i.e. the heroes), they just made a point with the lightning-stroke. It also took the decision from the humans whether they would kill Ulwine or take her to prison - and in prison is where she wouldn't have stayed rather long, because of her money and her influence she might have gotten away with a rather mild punishment. So, the lightning made sure that she got what she deserved.
The lightning would have been a clear sign of Rondra acting, in my opinion. Phex in fact wouldn't have cared for such big show-effects, his influence would have been rather more subtle (like Ulwine stumbling and falling down the stairs to her death - would have been a way nicer solution as well, I think, but not as rewarding to the mainstream-player as the "lightning-stroke of justice", I guess).
virumor wrote:Such shenanigans make the Gods less 'divine' and more like Greek gods, who were basically humans with divine powers.
In fact, the Greek gods were the most obvious inspiration for the Twelfgods. So these parallels are really wanted and the whole transcendental non-involvement thing doesn't work for them. It would be more up to Rashtullah or Rur & Gror or other entities like that...
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:You also have to keep in mind, that there is another story on the origin of the Gods, that tells that they came into existence as the twelve drops of blood from Los' wound from the battle against Sumu. This would mean, that there would have always been only the Twelfgods from the beginning on.
Which version of the myth is common in Middle Realms? That Los created all 12 gods while Sumu created the world and all living beings?
And who believe that Los created some gods like Praios while Sumu created the other ones (Giants/Titans like Ingerimm)?
I can't remember any clear information on that but I think that both myths are equally common and so each priest may decide himself, how he tries to bring the different aspects of these myths closer to the people. So some might just tell one of the stories, others might try some kind of mish-mash, while the next one might have interesting ideas on how they can both be true at the same time. And the ordinary people of the Middle-Realm might believe the version that is more credibly told by "their" priest - or they may believe both stories but as they are so unrelated to their everyday experience that they don't even think enough about them to be able to spot the contradiction in it... As I said, this is more or less just speculative, but in fact the myths are written down in very valuable books that are only accessible for priests or researchers. So, common people might just know anything about these myths from some stories told to them that might differ immensely from the written-down stories.
Farflame wrote:What about myth which Daughters of Satuaria believe in? They dont believe Sumu is dying. They belive Sumu is already dead, killed by Los, and that all that survived of Sumu is now in her egg-born daughter, Satuaria. According to this version Satuaria tried to revive her mother, but failed. And in this process of reviving Satuaria created all living beings while her mother's body created the world itself. I hope I didnt missinterpreted something.
I guess you have got this right. It is just another approach on the same old story, introducing Satuaria as Sumus daughter. If Sumu is really dead or just taking her last breaths, doesn't really matter. Satuaria might as well try to revive her as she might just save her from dying, the difference is more a rhetorical question. In any case, the "Sisters of Satuaria" feel a responsability for the body of Sumu.
Other stories (kept rather secretly by a few experts on saurian mythology like Rakorium or Hilbert of Puspereiken - if even they get as far with their interpretations in saurian history) tell that Ssad'huar (Satuaria) was a saurian priest/magician and the sister of Ssad'nav (Satinav). While her brother travelled to the beginning of time itself (and was punished by being tied to the ship of time), she went to the end of time. I can't remember the exact plan they had, but it had something to do with saving Sumu. Yet, this story might also be completely wrong, as I mentioned, the TDE-authors tend not to make any clear statement on which of the various contradicting myths is in fact "the truth".
Farflame wrote:This myth is probably connected to Philosopher's Stone:
Why Hesinde created Philosopher's Stone, powerfull relic made of all elements? To have the power of Sumu-originated Giants/gods over all elements (while Los-originated gods have more abstract powers)? So was the intend of Hesinde to give the gods superior power over Sumu-originated Giants? If so did the Giants like Ingerimm destroyed this artifact to prevent this plan? And as we know... by the way shards of the Stone brought intelligence and thinking into Dere.
In fact, not only Hesinde created the Philosopher's Stone, but the gods forged it together. And everyone tried to put his principles into it. I don't even think that the gods created it for themselves, instead they wanted to give it to the mortals as a kind of representation of their godly power and a sort of inspiration for eveolving into civilised beings. Yet, the problem was that some of the principles of the Twelfgods highly opposed each other (e.g. Praios' love of honesty and Phex' sneakiness or Travia's support for married couples and Rahja's passion). So, the Philosopher's Stone ultimately couldn't hold all these virtues and simply burst, being shattered to thousands of pieces all over Dere. In this legend, the Twelfgods were already united, so it must have happened after the war with the Giants. But the myth offers just another explanation on how the godly spirit came into the physical world and all the various creatures dwelling in there.
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:there are some creatures that only have one sex, for example all unicorns are male.
They cant reproduce? When some unicorn dies, there is one unicorn less in the world?
At least it is not known how they would reproduce. And they are really rare so maybe they really can't reproduce. Yet, I can't believe this myself and am sure that there is some way of making little baby unicorns. Maybe it has got something to do with their weakness for virgin maidens...
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:Among the first were the Giants, the dragons and the giants (hmm, I seem to lack the right words to be able to explain the difference between the godly Giants and the oversized human-looking giants, I hope, the usage of the capital letter will do the trick ),
Beings you call Giants (Ingerimm, Rashtull) should be probably called Titans. Giants with big G are ancient immortal giants (not gods). Some of them live for example on Dragon Island.
Maybe "Titans" would be the best translation although I tried to avoid this term. It has too many real-life-meaning in Greek mythology and also I think it lacks some of the associations that are included in the German original-term "Giganten". The "giants" however are all immortal but very physical beings of the third sphere. Some of them even still live in Aventuria (for example "Nine-fingers" living in the Orcland, "Milzenis" of the Bornland, the sooth-sayer and only remaining female giant "Chalwen", or "Adawadt" in the Rashtul's Wall being the biggest of them with a height of 8 metres - so they are really not THAT big as you might think at first).
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:It is said, that creatures that got about the same share of both Sumu and Los became civilized people like the humans (so, Orcs, Trolls and Achaz should also belong into this category, I'm not so sure about the dragons here).
I assume many intelligent dragons like Fuldigor or others like Apep must have both Sumu and Los origin.
It would seem so, but in most cases, this is seen differently. Usually, the big dragons are considered to be children of Sumu (fighting side by side with the Giants against the gods). Fuldigor is one of the twelve most ancient dragons that were directly involved in this war. Six of them are now guardians of Alveran while Fuldigor and five of his brothers (four if you don't count the as-for-now dead Pyrdacor) guard the balance of forces in the third sphere. So the power of Sumu is really dominant in all the dragons but the most important ones of them have risen to immense power and wisdom nevertheless.
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:that it was the demi-god Nandus, incarnation of Hesinde's wisdom, that advised Rondra to aim for Rashtuls neck (very clever advise indeed, you really need to be very intelligent to imagine that this might stop the otherwise invincible Giant... ), thus enabling her to bring him down. Nandus is the son of Phex and Hesinde, but why didn't Ingerimm aim for Nandus then?
Nothing strange in this idea. Its appropriate for a myth. Its in the same vein as in germanic myth about Siegried. When Siegfried killed dragon Fafnir, he make a bath in dragons blood to make his body invulnerable. But he didnt notice small leaf on his body. He thought he is invulnerable until one man get to know which spot to attack to kill him. Rashtull may have the same weak spot.
The same with invincible Achilles and his heel...
On the one hand yes, but on the other hand... I mean, come on, when you want to kill somebody, which are the most obvious parts to hit him? In the cases of Siegfried or Achilles, their weak spots were really small and somehow well-hidden. But I can imagine Rondra fighting Rashtul - the moment his neck would be unguarded, Rondra would try to hit it, being a very obvious vital area. And it is not just a small spot on his neck, it must have been the whole neck as otherwise she might not have seperated his whole head from his body! So there is Nandus standing next to her and shouting: "Aim for his neck, aim for his neck!" And Rondra thinks: "Well, maybe I should stop messing around with his arms and legs for a while, they seem to be miraculously immune to my mighty blows...?"??? Come on, you can't be serious about that! We are talking about the goddess who claims to have invented sword-fighting herself! and she needs to be advised that trying to seperate Rashtul's head from his shoulders might kill the Giant? Well, it's a myth and for that, I will accept it. But if I had been watching this battle in reality it'd better have happened differently!