Grief

[Cleitanious]

I too equipped my party in clothes (no shield) when out and about in town, and if combat broke loose I would fight like that.

[SirVincealot]

I, for one, would welcome a CRPG with a few realistic touches like watching your knight actually draw her sword

THE WITCHER.

actually look like real medeval stuff (mostly) rather than the hyper-stylized fantasy world stuff that you see in most CRPGs

THE WITCHER.

Especially if you think DRAK looks "real medieval" - though I will grant you that it is significantly more "authentic" than most.

The GOTHIC series might float your boat, as well.

SirV

[Swordscythe]

I loved the Witcher too.. But it's not the perfect game like some people are trying to say here... The annoying thing about the Witcher is that it was made with one of the worst engines ever. Drakensang, while being more recent, not only has better graphics but also runs a LOT smoother than the witcher. And of course, the Witcher has no character creation, and hardly any character advancement, like two or three armors and a couple of weapons.... No profession, far less quests and content, no companions, not half the features Drakensang has...

Just saying, the Witcher has its ups and downs just like Drakensang... I wouldn't call any better than the other, really, but if I had to, I'd probably pick DSA. Drakensang has a lot more flaws than the Witcher, granted, but it also has a lot more of everything else than the Witcher.

[SirVincealot]

the Witcher has hardly any character advancement

Say what?

a couple of weapons

Come again?

Try about 6 each of the Silver and Steel blades + meteorite version of them + runic version. There are also tons of enemy drops - which I'll grant have limited usability since Geralt can't use them in Witcher combat style.

On top of which, every Witcher blade can be coated with about 10 different oils - for vastly different effects.

You didn't explore the game world, fine. Only don't go claimin' there ain't nuthin' there!

far less quests

Okay. Now I know you didn't play THE WITCHER. Or did not play it past the starting village - which had 12 quests, one of which - "Of Monsters and Men" - has 13, distinct phases. I don't mean "go there" and "come back" as separate phases, which is how DRAK tracks. I mean "I must see the Reverend and tell him what I've learned" - i.e. you must go back to the village and engage in dialogue with meaningful choices (do you side with him, with the witch, with no one?)

To wit:

I just killed the beast in Tallon and have 57 quests on my docket (51 closed, 5 yet uncompleted, 2 failed). I'm in Old Vizima and have 98(!) quest in my book. Allowing for 1/3 of those being pure fetch quests ("gather herbs" which DRAK also has *plenty* of), that leaves 60 real adventures, most of which are quite a bit more complex than anything in DRAK - action and morality-wise.

The only quest I can remember in SANG where the game asked me to consider the two sides of the issue - because each side was "right" (or wrong, depending how you look at it!) is the Witches story in Blood Mountains. I "failed" the Herb spices quest, for example, since it seemed to me unwarranted for the bitch to make the entire population of the manor sick because one person - the cook - lost her cauldron . . . which had been stolen by men with swords and already returned to her!

DRAK is mostly black-and-white: here are the good guys, here are the obvious bad guys; now go kill them.

Now try not to go ballistic on me, m'kay? Let's get something straight: I'm not arguing that one of these two titles is *better* than the other. I don't give a rat's ass about "better" and even less about fanboy flame wars. I love THE WITCHER *and* DRAKENSANG both. I think they each excel at what they aimed to achieve. Alright?

All I'm disproving is your claim that THE WITCHER is "the little guy with much less content" - which couldn't be more wrong.

I'm NOT saying all or even both these cRPGs should play the same gray-area morality. I think the more idealistic tone of DRAK is just fine for its style, its quirky sense of humour, its colourful characters. It's perfect for what it is!

I am saying that WITCHER will make you stop and consider the consequences of your actions - oftentimes regret them. (Assuming you care about such things; perhaps you play games like a sociopath. How would I know?..)

You may not like the quests on the WITCHER menu (it is true that it has lots of "fetch" quests of limited appeal), but don't claim there's only one dish - there is shits load to do, and A LOT MORE with vastly different, incompatible outcomes.

Try this: Imagine you could side with the Dragon cult in DRAKENSANG - at which point the game completely veers on a different tangent. This happens twice in the main story of THE WITCHER, and many more times in the sidequests.

As for the rest of your post: "apples and oranges" my friend. Bratwurst to your salami. At least you seem to understand they were made to offer vastly different play experiences.

SirV

[Deprocas]

Some prefer a more detailed character development over too much effectiveness of equipment, some vice versa-so what?
Also, out of my experience in historical re-enactment and having some really good examples of architecture right here i could say up to now Drasa is the most close to a realistic mediaeval appearance.
(The city i was born in dates back to the roman empire, my village is at least 500 years old, the school where i graduated part of a monastery - 11th century...)
But realism is always also a limitation, a limitation which is- for the sake of "fantastic fantasy" - often broken in different ways. The mushrooms, the plants, some details or even the whole architecture.
So in the end, thats always a matter of personal favor. It doesnt have to be like that, same for the story.
Gray-area morality, black and white mentality, coffee and tee, cheeseburger and chilli. Don't you like to have the choice between different things? I do
Now - everyone, lets calm down a bit, shall we?

[Frenni]

It's the classic CRPG archer curse - the ONLY game I have ever played where archers kick ass is DIVINE DIVINITY.

Actually, I found archers extremely useful in Baldur's Gate - especially with Ice Arrows, as they hurt almost every creature.
Think it depends a lot on the arrows you can build. Still, an elven archer in TDE should be powerful, I agree. (I just know th P&P version of them, and they ARE killing machines )

[Curunír]

Especially if you think DRAK looks "real medieval" - though I will grant you that it is significantly more "authentic" than most.

The castles and lots of the other architecture in Drakensang are actually 1:1 copies (or mostly 1:1 copies) of real-world buildings according to the designers. How much more "real medieval" do you want? (Yes, ok. The colour palette is a "little" bit too bright.)

[Swordscythe]

Okay. Now I know you didn't play THE WITCHER.

Actually, I finished it multiple times.

DRAK is mostly black-and-white: here are the good guys, here are the obvious bad guys; now go kill them.

Of course, the duality was one of the Witcher's strongest points - it makes little sense to compare one of the strengths of one game when I didn't even address it? I never said Drakensang had better ambiguity than The Witcher.

I don't give a rat's ass about "better" and even less about fanboy flame wars. I love THE WITCHER *and* DRAKENSANG both. I think they each excel at what they aimed to achieve. Alright?

You could've fooled me, and isn't that about what I said?

Sorry, about the weapons and armor, they all looked the same, and character advancement.. you could fight better, which I would've adored had I not thought the point-and-click combat system silly... but that's it. They should've left the spells out, IMO.

This is all my opinion.. don't take it to heart like that, if you disagree, that's fine.

[wolfy]

Wolfie - you just described Baldur's Gate I. Boy those were the days. Actually, I really enjoyed that game - especially the early part. Ever battle was a fight for your life because you only had like 20 hit points. You never knew when your sword was going to break and you'd have to pick up the weapon the orc you just killed dropped and fight on. And when your mage ran out of Schlitz, you'd better find a spot to pitch the tent and hope nothing went bump in the night. Archery was very effective in that game, even though you could "only" fit 60 arrows in your quiver. Buying that suit of full plate armor took some scrimping and saving, but you finally got it - it kicked ass. Of course, all those (quasi)realistic quirks were "fixed" in the sequal and just about every CRPG since.

I'm another one who changes clothes in Drakensand just for the role playing effect (even though it has no effect on the game). I, for one, would welcome a CRPG with a few realistic touches like watching your knight actually draw her sword from a scabbard instead of it just appearing in her hand. Or limiting the number of arrows in your quiver to a realistic number, say 20 or so, but make each one more lethal, especially at short range or against unarmored targets (ala Robin Hood:Legend of Sherwood). And please, somebody, design a (good) game that implements mounted combat. All that said, one of the things I really love about Drakensang is the weapons, armors, environments, etc actually look like real medeval stuff (mostly) rather than the hyper-stylized fantasy world stuff that you see in most CRPGs

Would love to see ROT go the weapon breakage route.Salvaging after a battle for better weapons adds immersion for me.You have probably noticed in DS the enemy bodies lying on floor and weapon is on ground away from body.In earlier versions you could probably pick up these individually from looting the actual corpse.That would be great.Instead you click on an enemy who has a shortsword laying next to him and the loot screen has a a club.

Immersion breakers for me are not finding a bow and poisoned arrows on archers that were using them on me,not finding halberd on big dudes body that was swinging on me.Opening coffins and no body is inside but a ton of gold rings and silver necklaces.......put a skeleton with clothes on and loot that would be buried with him....not weapon balm and a single bronze armor greave in empty grave.

The moorbridge marshes had pieces of random armor in coffins.You fought these tougher skeletons once in awhile that were decked out in bronze armor.....how kool it would of been to find complete sets of bronze armor on these skeletons.You fought 3 if I remember correctley.

Turn off the torches that are lit in places that noone ever goes too.

Many other things that hit me as I play but never remember them.

[bolandjd]

Never played The Witcher, but I've read a lot of good things about it. I guess I'll have to check it out. I tried Gothic when it first came out and found it too awkward to play. I'm more of a point-and-click interface kind of guy. Glad to others enjoyed BG1 as much as I did.

Some games with a lot of moral complexity are fun, but in the back of my head I'm always second guessing the game engine to make sure that my "alignment" or "reputation" or whatever stays the way I want it to. I don't mind the moral simplicity of Drakensang, since I basically play the game for mindless, guilty pleasure anyway. If I want to think hard, I'll just go back to work.

[bolandjd]

Would love to see ROT go the weapon breakage route.Salvaging after a battle for better weapons adds immersion for me.You have probably noticed in DS the enemy bodies lying on floor and weapon is on ground away from body.In earlier versions you could probably pick up these individually from looting the actual corpse.That would be great.Instead you click on an enemy who has a shortsword laying next to him and the loot screen has a a club.

Immersion breakers for me are not finding a bow and poisoned arrows on archers that were using them on me,not finding halberd on big dudes body that was swinging on me.Opening coffins and no body is inside but a ton of gold rings and silver necklaces.......put a skeleton with clothes on and loot that would be buried with him....not weapon balm and a single bronze armor greave in empty grave.

The moorbridge marshes had pieces of random armor in coffins.You fought these tougher skeletons once in awhile that were decked out in bronze armor.....how kool it would of been to find complete sets of bronze armor on these skeletons.You fought 3 if I remember correctley.

Turn off the torches that are lit in places that noone ever goes too.

Many other things that hit me as I play but never remember them.

Amen brother.