FAQ: basics, talent checks, combat, hints

[Roban Grünstein]

[CAUTION! THIS FAQ CONTAINS MINOR SPOILERS! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!]


Table of contents

0) Welcome

1) How does the TDE system work?
I) Attributes
II) Base Values
III) Talent- and Spellchecks

2) The combat system
I) How does the combat system work?
II) Calculating combat values
III) Hitpoints and ST bonus
IV) Ranged combat
V) Sword'n'shield - choosing your weapon
i) Ways to parry
ii) Weapon classes

3) Enhancement
I) Levels
II) Costs
III) What should I improve?
IV) Special abilities












0) Welcome!

You are new to the world of The Dark Eye, you have bought Drakensang and now your are a bit clueless how some game mechanics or rules work?

Well, no worries! I play the pan and paper version of TDE for more than 8 years now - and I learn something new at every session.

The following FAQ contains the most important facts about the game mechanics.


Sidenote 1:
The PnP system from TDE is much more complicated than the Drakensang system, but I have no complete overview on the changes made for the computer Version. Therefore, there are parts in this FAQ where I am not 100% sure if my statements are correct. I will mark these with three red stars ***.

Sidenote 2:
Since I am a non-native english speaker, this text will contain several spelling and grammar mistakes, as well as partially wrong translated in-game terms from the german version. Your help to fix them is appreachiated!

1) How does the TDE system work?
TDE is a so-called "3D20" dice roll system, pretty much focused on single or triple 20-sided dices. These are mostly used to check attributes.
Every character has 8 attributes, usually reaching from 8-20:


I)Attributes

CO - Courage
CL - Cleverness
IN - Intuition
CH - Charisma
DE - Dexternity
AG - Agility
CN - Constitution
ST - Strength

If a character uses a talent or casts a spell, three 20-sided dice are rolled to see if he is sucessful. This is called talent check and spell check.
However, before I can elaborate on these, I have to explain another bunch of numbers:


II) Base Values

This are basic values calculated from attributes and mostly needed for combat. Unfortunatly, the character sheet does often not show the real base value, but rather a total value from: base value +/- racial modifier +/- class modifier +/- bonuses/penalties modifier.

AT base: (CO+AG+ST)/5
Attack base is the basic AT value for all melee weapons.
Even if your character hast never learnt how to use sabres (Talentvalue TAV 0), he may still wield the weapon with this basic attack value. AT base is important for many offensive combat abilities.

PA base: (IN+AG+ST)/5
Parry base is the basic value for all kinds of defensive actions: Weaponparry, shield parry and even dodge. Some defensive combat abilities require a certain amount of PA base.

RC base: (IN/DE/ST)/5
Ranged combat base is the basic attack value for all ranged weapons. Some ranged combat abilites requrire a certain amount of RC base.

Vitality: (CN+CN+ST)/2
The vitality of a character, showing how many hitpoints it can take before dying. As you might guess: The more, the merrier!
The real base value cannot be seen, only the total value. However, the calculation works, since every point of CN gives you +1 to vitality.
In general, dwarfs and fighting professions have a bonus to vitality, while elves and spellcasters suffer a malus.

Endurance: (CO+CN+AG)/2
The endurance of a character, needed for almost all combat abilities.
Real base value is not shown, only total value can be seen.

Astral Energy: (CO+IN+CH)/2
Used for casting spells. Works like "mana" from other systems.
Again, only the total value is shown.

Resist Magic: (CO+CL+CN)/5
Protects from enemy spells by reducing the effective talent value (TAV) of the spellcaster.
Only total value is shown. In general, thorwals have reduced RM, while spellcasters, elves and dwarfes have increased RM.

Wound Threshold: (CN) ***
The amount of hitpoints a character can suffer without getting wounded. Hitpoints > CN will result in one wound, HP > 2xCN will result in two wounds (and so on).
Raising CN will automatically increase the WT of your character.
(Note: In the PnP Version, WT is only CN/2. I have no idea if it is in fact CN or CN/2 in Drakensang.)


III) Talent- and Spellchecks:

As said above, when using a spell or talent, the game rolls three D20 on the required talents. If the roll is smaller or equal the attribute, everything is fine. However, if it is higher, the game will use points from your talent value (TAV) to reduce the rolled number down to your attribute value.

Example: Alrik has DE 12 and IN 12, his TAV "Disarm Traps" is 10, he tries to disarm a neat indy trap in the dungeon of black mage Gerwulf:
He rolles on DE/DE/IN, so thats 12/12/12 for his attributes.
The dice show: DE12, DE15, IN 3. The first roll is still equal to his attributes, all fine. For the second, he has to use 3 points from his TAV 10 to reduce it down to 7. The third is lower than twelve and fine again.

All remaining talent points at the end of a talentcheck are called "TaP*". If the TaP* are 0+, the talent check is considered sucessful.

Example: Alrik from above has 10 (TAV) - 3 (reduction for second talent check roll) = 7 TaP* after the talent check.

What you have to consider is that diffuclt actions are penalized with a positive modifier, reducing your TAV for that talent check. If your TAV is reduced below 0, every roll must be that much lower than your attribute!

Example: Alrik tries to disarm a really difficult trap (+15 modifier), his TAV is 10. So his effective TAV for this talent check is: 10 (TAV) - 15 (difficult trap modifier) = -5. Every roll of his skill check must be five points below his attributes (12/12/12) - not a single one may exceed 7 or the skill check will fail! Well, good luck, Alrik!

On the other hand, tools can give your character a negative modifier which can be used to reduce bad dice rolls. However, TaP* can never be higher than your regular TAV.

Another side note: Two or three "1" rolled will always result in a sucessful talent check, while two or three "20" always result in a failure.
Ain't nothing better than rolling two twenties in PnP while your character is climbing up a hundred meter high cliff... Ouch...

Here is a (german) page where you can roughly calculate your chances and average TaP* for talent checks:
http://www.heim-d.uni-sb.de/~ludger/dsa/wuerfel.php

[i]Note: Since the devs seem to hate failures, there are some talentes and spells in Drakensang that will never fail, but rather have 0 TaP* instead: The "light" spell for mages is such an example.


Now, let's have a look at that with some examples:

Alrik wants to do some lock picking on chests. He has DE 15 und IN 14, his TAV "Pick Locks" is 15, the talent check is on DE/DE/IN - 15/15/14.

The first chest has an easy lock, so the talent check isn't modified. Alrik uses a hair pin, which adds +1 to his TAV (Don't confuse this with the difficulty modifer - here +1 is a good thing. Yeah, I know, totaly counterintuitive...). His effective TAV therefore is 15 (TAV) + 1 (hairpin) = 16
Drakensang rolls: DE12, DE15, IN18.
The first two rolls are smaller or equal his DE, so there is no need to spend talent points. The third roll (18) is 4 above his IN value, so he has to spend 4 talent points to reduce it.
So in the end Alrik has: 15 (TAV) + 1 (hair pin) - 4 (roll reduction) = 12 TaP* - the lock is open!


The second chest has a better lock, the talent check is modified by +10. Alrik decides to use one of his lock picks (TAV +5).
For this check, his TAV thus is: 15 (TAV) - 10 (difficulty) + 5 (tools) = 10
Drakensang rolls: DE19 DE16 IN19
The first roll needs 4 points to be reduced down to 15, so 6 TaP remain. The second roll is 1 too high, so he has 5 TaP remaining, the third is 5 too high - in the end, Alrik has 0 TaP*. A close one, but still a sucess.
Now if Alrik had used his hair pin instead of the lock picks, he would only have had +1 instead of +5 bonus points - and the talent check would have failed with -4 TaP*...


The third chest has a masterful lock - giving him a +15 modifier. He looks for another pair of lock picks and prays - his TAV is only 15 (TAV) - 15 (difficulty) + 5 (lock picks) = 5.
He rolls, but, oh my: DE20, FF3, IN20 - the talent check fails due to a double 20...
With a curse on his lips, Alrik pulls out another pair of lock picks and gives the lock another try:
DE3 DE8 IN12
All rolls are below his attributes - so he has 5 TaP* remaining, the lock is open!


Now Alrik finds another chest. It has a simple lock (no difficulty modifier), but Alrik has no lock picks or hair pins left. So he has to use his bare hands to open the lock, giving him a +10 penalty for missing tools. His TAV for this talent check is thus: 15 (TAV) - 10 (bare hands) = 5.
Drakensang rolls: DE16 DE4 IN10
Alrik has to spend 1 point to reduce the first roll down to 15, so he has 4 TaP* left, the lock is open.


Just when turns around to leave the warehouse, he suddenly finds another chest with a masterful lock (+15). Since he has no more tools, he would suffer the bare hand penalty (+10). In the end that would mean: 15 (TAV) - 15 (difficulty) - 10 (bare hands) = -10 TAV.
That means every(!) roll for this talent check would have to be 10 points below Alrik's attributes.
Alrik knows he wouldn't succeed even if he gave it ten tries - and he hears footsteps from somewhere behind him - time to get out of the warehouse!

While TaP* are rather unimportant for talent checks in Drakensang, spell checks are another issue:

Mage Bosper wants to cast a energy bolt (Fulminictus) to get that big filthy rat. His attributes are 14/12/12 his talent value (TAV) is 12.
He rolls:
IN16 AG14 CN10
So he has to use 2+2+0 TaP du reduce his dice rolls, 8 TaP* are remaining.
His spell now deals 2D6+8 damage. He rolls two six-sided dice: 4 and 3 = 7, giving a total of 15 hit points.

Since the rat is still alive (and suddenly called smaller ones!) he casts the spell a second time:
IN2 AG10 CN12
All TaP remain, giving 12 TaP*. He rolls 2D6: A 5 and a 6 - so thats 5 + 6 + 12 = 23 hit points - enough to take the big rat down.

The elven spellweaver Elayoë wants to increase dwarf Forgrimm's strength with an "Attributo ST" spell. Her attributes are 18 16 12, her TAV is 6.
She rolls: 16 17 10 - 5 TaP* remain.
The spell now increases Forgrimm's strengh by 5/3+1. 5/3 is rounded up, giving 2, so Forgrimm now gains 2+1=3 ST.

A few weeks later, the exhausted party returns home from the swamps.
Now she wants to enchant Forgrimm's CN before an important battle - however, her TAV for that spell is only 3. Her attributes are: 18 16 13
She rolls: 13 14 19 - giving -3 TaP*. Normally the spell would now fail, but the developers decided to be nice: Regardless the TaP* are set to 0 and Forgrimm gets +1 CN.

Elayoë notices her failure and decides to increase ST now instead. Since some time has gone by, she has now a TAV of 17. Her attributes are: 18 16 12, she rolls:
10 15 9 - all 17 TaP* remain! Forgrimm gains 17/3+1=7 points of ST! It's hammer time!!

[Roban Grünstein]

2) The combat system

Since combat is a major part of the Drakensang gameplay, it gets a bigger part of the FAQ.


I) How does the combat system work?

Combat in TDE is round-based.

Every round of combat (CR) takes about 2 seconds. Normally any character has 1 attack and 1 parry each round.

During the combat round, all characters will attack once. It is important to note that Drakensang doesn't use initiative values like the PnP version, so the good guys always act first.

To check if an attack is successful, a single D20 is rolled on the current AT value of the character. If the roll is smaller or equal the AT value, the attack is considered successful.
Unless the victim has been attacked from behind, it may now try to parry: It may roll a D20 on it's PA value. If the roll is smaller or equal, the attack has been parried and nothing happens.
Dodge in this case is a parry maneuver like weapon or shield parry. It can be used as a substitute without any malus. (***)

If a 1 is rolled during combat, a second "check roll" is made and a special combat rule applies:
AT 1 attacks will be considered lucky, regardless if the second check fails or succeeds. A lucky attack can only be parried with 1/2 (***) of the regular PA value.
If the second check roll is successful, the attack is considered "lucky critical": It will deal double damage if it is not parried.
Parrys that roll a 1 and succeed with the check roll will not consume the parry for this round and thus give an additional chance to parry another foe.

If a 20 is rolled, the attack or parry option is considered "bumbler".
I have no details about the effect of a bumbler, but one thing I know: regular PnP rules do not apply, so your character cannot hit himself or fall down to the ground.
My guess would be that an AT 20 consumes all remaining actions for this round(***) and is considered a failure, a PA 20 will just let your enemy hit.

Whenever a target is hit, a D20 is rolled to determine the hit zone: 1-6 legs, 7+8 lower body, 9-14 arms, 15-18 upper body, 19+20 head.

Afterwards, the hitpoints of the weapon are resolved: A sword with 1D+4 will deal 1 six sided dice plus 4, thus 5-10 HP. The local armor class is substracted from the hit points tp determine the actucal damage points.

If the received DP are higher than CN (or CN/2, see wound treshold in post #1), the character suffers a wound unless he succeeds in a Willpower +10 check. Wounds reduce the combat capability of a character: AT base, PA base, RC base and AG are reduced by -2. If a character suffers 5 wounds, he will loose consciousness immeadiatly.

Now lets have a look at a fight:

Alrik is a mercenary from Ferdok, he fights with a sword and a padded surcoat, bracers, greaves and a helmet, his armor class on every spot of the body is 2.
His stats: VI:35, AT:15, PA:14, HP:1D+4, AC:2, CN:15

His enemy is a shady beggar from the "Brisky Ferret", he wears a jerkin and fights with a dagger.
Stats: VI 30, AT:12, PA:12, HP:1D+1, AC:0-2, CN:13

1. CR:
Alrik: AT roll 10 -> success, Beggar: PA roll: 2 -> success
Beggar: AT roll 18 -> failure

2. CR:
Alrik: AT roll 19 -> failure
Beggar: AT roll 2 -> success, Alrik PA roll: 18 -> failure
The Beggar hits Alrik on the left leg for 3 HP. His armor absorbs 2 HP, so he suffers only 1 DP and has 34 VI left.

3. CR:
Alrik: AT 3 -> success, Beggar: PA 15 -> failure
Alrik hits the Beggar at the upper body and deals 6 HP, the armor absorbs 2 HP, 4 DP pass through. The Beggar has 26 VI remaining.
Beggar: AT 4 -> success, Alrik: PA 12 -> success

4. CR:
Akrik AT 11 -> success, Beggar: PA 14 -> failure
Alrik hits the head, dealing 9 HP. Since the Beggar doesn't wear a helmet, he has no armor to reduce the damage and therefore takes 9 DP, leaving him with 15 VI.
Beggar: AT 3 -> success, Alrik: PA 6 -> success

5. CR:
Alrik AT 1, 4 -> lucky crit, Beggar: PA 17 -> failure
Alrik hits the Beggar's upper body and deals 2 x 7 = 14 HP. The jerkin reduces the damage by 2 TP, so Alrik deals 12 DP. The remaining VI of the Beggar is 3.

Impressed by this attack, the Beggar drops his dagger, turns around and runs like hell.
VICTORY FOR ALRIK!

II) Calculating combat values

This is by far the most difficult part of the TDE system. Okay, ready everyone? Take a deep breath - once you understood this, the rest is a cakewalk!

For combat values, many numbers are important:
AT base, PA base, RC base, TAV in used weapon skill, weapon modifer, effective encumberance. For ranged combat there is still some modifiers like target size and range - but let's focus on melee weapons first.

It is important to read carefully! I will explain the differnt ways of parry with some examples at the end of the post.

The formula for calculating the AT value is:

AT base
+ weapontalent TAV used for AT
+/- weapon and shield modifier
- every even point of effective encumberance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)


The formula for calculating weapon parry:

PA base
+ weapontalent TAV used for PA
+/- weapon modifier
- every uneven point of effective encumberance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)


The formula for shield parry:

PA base
+ shield modifier
+ level of shield fighting * 2
- every uneven point of effective encumberance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)


The formula for dodge:

PA base
+ level of dodge * 2
- every(!) point of effective encumberance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)


What is this "weapontalent TAV"?
-> The amount of TAV spend on AT or PA when increasing the TAV of the weapon style. Be careful, you cannot re-distribute those points. Think before allocating them!
In general, the difference of allocated points between AT and PA may never be higher than 5:

A warrior with TAV 7 therefore may allocate his points like this: 6/1, 5/2, 4/3, 3/4, 2/5, 1/6, but not 7/0 or 0/7.

Please note that this does only affect the points allocated - AT and PA values in combat may have a higher difference than 5!

What is the weapon modifier (WM)?
-> A modifier that is used to alter attack and weapon (and only weapon!) parry.

A sledgehammer has a WM of -2/-4, the using character will suffer -2 on his AT value and -4 on his defence value in combat.

Alrike uses a rusty axe with WM 0/-3, she fights with a shield. Her weapon parry is reduced by -3, but as long as she uses shield parry, this is totally unimporant for her.

What is "effective encumberance" (eEC)?
-> The amount of accumulated encumberance.
The formula is: encumberance from armor and carried weight - level of armor use * 1 - eEC modifier of current wielded weapon
The eEC modifier for weapons ranges from 0 (brawling, no point may be ignored) to -4 (for maces and axes, up to four points may be ignored)

Btw, the remaining eEC is not substracted equally: The first point will not reduce AT and PA by -0.5, but rather PA by -1, the second will reduce AT by -1, the third again PA (and so forth).

Alrike wears leather armor with EC 3, she uses a dagger (eEC -1) - her eEC therefore is 2, she gets -1 to both AT and PA.
If she had the ability "armor user I", her eBE would be reduced to 1, she would only suffer -1 to PA. If she had learned "armor user II" or would use a mace (eEC -4), she wouldn't suffer any penalty at all.

So for shield parry, my weapon PA value is totally unimportant?
-> Exactly, shield parry just uses your PA base and the "shield fighter I-III" ability to improve.


Now let's calculate some combat values:

Mercenary Alrike has an AT and PA base of 8, her "swords" TAV is 12, she allocated the points evenly (6/6), her weapon of choise is a sword of war (WM 0/0, eEC -2), she wears no armor.

Her AT value in combat is:
AT base -> 8
+ weapontalent TAV used for AT -> +6
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> 0
- every even point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
8+6+0-0+0=14

Her weapon PA value is:
PA base -> 8
+ weapontalent TAV used for PA -> 6
+/- weapon modifier -> 0
- every uneven point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
8+6+0-0+0=14

Since she uses no shield, no shield parry is possible.

Dodge value:
PA base -> 8
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 0
- every(!) point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)
8+0-0=8

Therefore she has and AT/PA value of 14/14, dodge is 8.

Dwarfensoldier Gandrosch, Son of Dorgrimm has an AT and PA base of 8, his TAV "Maces and axes" is 13, allocated 9/4. He fights with a battle axe (WM 0/-1, eEC -4) and a wooden shield (WM -1/3), he wears a chainmail with EC 4 and has learned "shield fighter I".

AT value:
AT base -> 8
+ weapontalent TAV used for AT -> +9
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> -1
- every even point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
8+9-1-0+0=16

Weapon PA:
PA base -> 8
+ weapontalent TAV used for PA -> +4
+/- weapon modifier -> -1
- every uneven point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
8+4-1-0=11

Shield PA:
PA base -> 8
+ shield modifier -> +3
+ level of shield fighting * 2 -> +2
- every uneven point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)
8+3+2-0=13

Dodge:
PA base
+ level of dodge * 2
- every(!) point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)
8+0-0=8

Mayana Moonharp is an elven warrior with AT and PA base 9, she has a spear TAV of 15 (allocated 10/5) and uses a wooden spear (WM -1/-3, eEC -2), in addition she wears an elvish leather jerkin (EC1). She has learned dodge I-III.

AT value:
AT base -> 9
+ weapontalent TAV used for AT -> +10
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> -1
- every even point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
10+9-1-0+0=18

Weapon PA:
PA base -> 9
+ weapontalent TAV used for PA -> +5
+/- weapon modifier -> -3
- every uneven point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
9+5-3-0=11

Shield PA:
Not possible

Dodge:
PA base -> 9
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 6
- every(!) point of effective encumberance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)
9+6-0=15

Knight Eberich of Ironstone has AT and PA base 9, he is a masteful swordsman with TAV 20 (allocated 10/10), he fights with a sword of war (WM 0/0, eEC -2), in addition, he carries an improved iron shield (-2/5). His armor is a full chainmail with helmet, greaves and bracers, adding 6 points of EC, he knows "shield fighter I" and "armor user I", so his effective encumberance is 6-2-1=3.

AT value:
AT base -> 9
+ weapontalent TAV used for AT -> +10
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> 0 (-2 with shield)
- every even point of effective encumberance -> 1
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
9+10-0-1+0=18 (without shield)
9+10-2-1+0=16 (with shield)

Weapon PA:
PA base -> 9
+ weapontalent TAV used for PA -> +10
+/- weapon modifier -> 0
- every uneven point of effective encumberance -> -2
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on) -> 0
9+10-0-2=17

Shield PA:
PA base -> 9
+ shield modifier -> +5
+ level of shield fighting * 2 -> +2
- every uneven point of effective encumberance -> -2
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)
9+5+2-2=14

Dodge:
PA base -> 9
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 0
- every(!) point of effective encumberance -> -3
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilites (and so on)
8+0-3=5

Note: It might be possible that dodge actually ignores the weapon eEC reduction. Right now, I have no way to confirm - if you have a minute to spare, please test it!


III) Hitpoints and ST bonus

All weapons deal a certain amount of hitpoints (HP). Normally this will be one or two six sided dice plus a small bonus. Whenever you hit an enemy, Drakensang will roll the dice and determine the damage dealt.

Alrik uses a sword of war, the HP are 1D+4, so each attack will deal 5-10 HP.

Knight Eberich uses an Andergaster, a giant two-handed sword. This weapon deals 3D+2 HP, so every hit will deal 5-20 HP (average: 13)

In addition, every weapon has a ST modifier for damage. The first number shows the treshold, the second one the intervall whenever another HP is added to the damage value of the weapon.

Gandrosch uses a mace with 1D+4 TP, ST modifier for this weapon is 14/2. For each 2 ST over 14, he will get an additional HP: with ST 16 the mace will deal 1D+5, with ST 18 it will deal 1D+6 (and so on).

However, ST modifiers work also the other way round:

The lanky elven maiden Elayoë uses Gandrosch's mace, but due to her low ST she gets a HP penalty: With ST 12, she would only deal 1D+3 HP, with ST 10 the damage would be reduced to 1D+2 (and so on).

Some weapons like daggers, spears, staves and fencing weapons have high ST intervalls - so ST is rather unimportant for them. Others like one and two handed maces and axes have low intervalls, so ST is very important.
In general weak characters should stick to the first kind, while strong fighters might want to pick some from the second category.


IV) Ranged combat

Ranged combat worls like melee combat: The shooter determines his RC value and rolls a D20 to check if he hits the target.
Unlike weapon attacks, ranged weapons can only be dodged or shield parried (which is both hampered by a modifier (***))

The formula for RC value:
RC base
+ TAV from the ranged weapon
- effective encumberance
+/- size modifier (shield users are considered smaller (***))
- number of persons in melee around the target*2 (***)
- miscellaneous modifiers
Please note: I have no idea about details of the ranged combat system, so the (***) above and the describtions below are taken from my PnP experience!

What is the size modifier?
-> There are several size levels: tiny, very small, small, medium, large, very large. Humans are considered a medium sized target and give a +4 shot modifier, each level of bigger size reduces the modifier by -2, while each level of smaller size increase it by +2 each.

What about the number of persons in melee?
-> Honestly, no idea. In the PnP version you get a +2 penalty for every person fighting around your target - but is it the same in Drakensang? I really doubt it...

Miscellaneous modifiers?
-> Being attacked in melee by an enemy may give additional modifiers, as well as shields which reduce the target size by 1-2 levels.


V) Sword'n'shield - choosing your weapon

You should decide early which weapon and defence skills you want your character to learn. In general every character should have at least 1 weapon talent and 1 defence ability maxed.

i) Ways to parry:
There are three different ways to parry an attack:

1) Weapon parry
Pro: Effective on high weapon TAV, benefits from WM, no special abilities needed, can reach good PA values early on by allocating weapon TAV to defence, cheap to enhance
Con: High PA allocations result in low AT values, some weapons (esp. two-handed ones) have very bad WM, can't parry ranged weapons and some kind of attacks (fire breath of a dragon, etc.), only valid for the used weapon talent

2) Shield parry
Pro: One additional parry allowed per round (with SF I), ignores WM (in general there are much more weapons with WM malus than with WM bonus), makes ranged combat versus character more difficult, allows early AT maximization, makes it possible to wield many weapons even with low TAV effectively
Con: Weapon parry may be a bit better in very late game, needs instructor to be teached, requires good shields (which will not allow spellcasting except for the story gear), more costly ducat wise than weapon parry, some attacks cannot be parried (breath of a dragon), needs high ST

3) Dodge
Pro: Allows parrying almost all attacks, independend from weapon TAV, doesn't need any items, allows to maximize AT early
Con: Needs high AG, very bad development and maximal parry values (16-17 max), suffers vastly from encumberance

In the end it all comes down to personal preference. But allow me to add some subtile comments from my side:

Weapon parry: Very dependend from your weapon. Wooden hammer with -2/-4 sucks, floret with 0/+1 rules. Not as important as in PnP, since AT and PA values above 20 barely matter in Drakensang. Still, the only valid choise for tin-can two-handed weapon wielders. If you focus on one weapon class it is cheaper both AP and money wise, but since enhancement is restricted by character level, shield combat gives you betters stats, esp in the early game.

Schildkampf: My favorite! The most important part of the shield: The second parry! Defence against ranged weapons! How many times are you surrounded by 3-4 rats - and here the second shield parry will save your day! Enemy archers ahead? Well, you got your shield!
Shields give you the option to develope multiple melee skills - just increase TAV to 5 and allocate all points into AT, shield parry will do the trick on defence. Yes, it is more costly than weapon parry - but you can find good shields quite early in the game. Just take the improved iron shield (-2/5), add SF II (+4) and with PA base 9 you have reached PA 18 and almost maxed your defence. Just fire defensive combat I when needed - and here you go. Only problem: Casters can only use wooden shields (-1/3), so they might need defensive combat II to get max defence in melee. Still, better than weapon parry for them.

Dodge: Bad? No, horrible! A lousy +2 bonus per dodge ability is way to small to make this one worthwhile in battle. Only race that might find this one useful is the elves who can get +4 dodge via spellcasting(***) - and even then they shouldn't get any encumberance. If I had to decide between thick armor and dodge, I would always prefer armor and go shield parry instead.


ii) Weapon classes
Important for the modern fighter. Please note that I have no idea which classes get cool magic uberweapons!
So don't blame me if you find the "Sword of demigod destruction 10D+15" and skilled maces/axes because of this FAQ...

Class: Weaponclass
Basic: Available from start?
Cost: Enhancement cost (siehe Post 3)
eEC: Effective encumberance
Abilites: Important higher tier abilities that can be used with this weapon
Pro: Advantage of this weapon class
Con: Disadvanteage of this weapon class
Conclusion: A statement from me

Brawling
Basic: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: 0
Abilites: only Masterparry
Pro: cheap both AP and ducat wise, no weapon needed
Con: very low damage, no abilities except Masterparry, no weapon parry possible, no eEC bonus
Conclusion: Useless. Unless you look for a real challange and want win the game without any weapon.

Daggers
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC:-1
Abilities: Mortal Blow
Pro: Basic, no ST needed
Con: very low eEC, low damage, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: Better than Brawling - but does that mean much? Keep away if possible.

Sabres
Basis: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill
Pro: Base talent, mostly good WM, no high ST needed
Con: No Strike of Wrath, no Lunge
Conclusion: Good 1H weapon talent for non-fighters in the early game. Later swords are better imo, but I am sure you will find a magic sabre - so an okay option for one of your characters.

Swords
Basis: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one), no high ST required
Pro: Versatile , mostly good WM
Con: costly (ducat and AP wise), No Strike of Wrath, no Mortal Blow
Conclusion: A good skill for characters with medicore strengh and shield fighter skills. Don't have to mention that the magic sword is the archetype of any magic weapon, do I?

Fencing Weapons
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -1
Abilities: Mortal Blow, Windmill
Pro: Probably best WM around, no ST needed, at least 1 good magic weapon confirmed
Con: Expensive (ducat and AP wise), low eEC, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: Imo the best skill for 1H weapon fighters (or mages?) without a shield. Can deliever mortal blows which is really nice, fighters with shield should stick to swords instead, but one character with this is alwas good for the party since you will get a nice weapon in the early midgame.

Maxes and Axes
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -4
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one)
Pro: Basic, excellent eEC, benefits from high ST
Contra: No upper tier feint abilities, requires decent ST to use effectively, rather bad PA WM
Conclusion: The ideal weapon for shield using tanks and heavily armored fighters. ST bonus can be very nice in later game when you get ST improving items and magic. My favorite! Doesn't do that well against high PA enemies, but since they are rare in Drakensang (let me recall - did I ever see one? Nope, afaik not...) - don't care about that.

Staves
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one), Rush
Pro: Versatile, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), no ST required, good WM
Con: 2H-weapon, no higher tier feint abilities, no Strike of Wrath
Conclusion: A versatile weapon for defensive orientated characters - mages & alike. Main advantage over spears is the better WM. You will get at least 2 nice staffs during the game, so one character with this would be nice - if you can handle the enemy numbers.

Spears
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Mortal Strike, Rush
Pro: Good eEC, no ST required, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), can Mortal Strike
Contra: 2H-weapon, no Mighty Blow attacks, often bad WM, no good spears during the early game
Conclusion: Messed up in Drakensang. More offensive than Staves, but the lack of Mighty Blow maneuvers sucks. No really good weapons can be found in early game - and even later, spears tend to have bad WM. But maybe the waiting is worth it and you get a super-duper dragonkiller spear later, who knwos? But really, spears are pity in Drakensang. Too bad, since I really like this weapon class. In PnP you can use them with shields once you have ST 15+ (Sparta style) - and there you can even use them as throwing weapons. Not to mention the cool tacking ability that is missing here... *sob* Oh well, I guess if I ever finish the game I will try an elven warrior with spear and dodge... Bwahahaha...

2H-Maxes and Axes
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one), Windmill
Pro: Good eEC, high damage, benefits from high ST
Con: 2H-weapon, no feint abilities whatsoever, very bad WM, ST needed
Conclusion: For the damage dealing tin can. The WM of these weapons is probably the worst in the game (even spears can't beat that), even on high TAV a solid defence is impossible. The lack of feint makes it a very bad choise against enemies with good PA (again - did i ever see one?!). Like one handed maces and axes this one greatly benefits from boosted ST.

2H-Swords
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one), Windmill
Pro: Good damage, better WM than 2H-Maces and Axes, no high ST needed
Contra: 2H-weapon, costly (AP and ducat wise), no high tier feint abilities
Conclusion: Two handed weapon with better defence capability than 2H-Maces/Axes (and the ability to feint). Needs lower ST attributes, but also lower eEC and max damage in the later game.


Bow
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -3
Abiltiy: Master Marksman
Pro: Low reload time, good damage per shot and round
Con: Costly (ducat and AP wise), needs ammo
Conclusion: #1 Ranged weapon, imo way better than crossbows. Actually good for mages to do a Master Marksman shot as battle opening and starting to cast afterwards. Longbows have the ability to one-shot enemies with Master Marksman. And you get a few Tenobaal's feather arrows, with a nasty (+10 iirc?) damage bonus.

Crossbow
Basis: No
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -5
Abilities: Master Marksman
Pro: Cheap, very good eEC, good damage
Con: Long reload time
Conclusion: Can't think of a reason why to choose a crossbow over a bow. Yes, they are cheaper AP wise, but their potential is much lower than bows. And you will barely be able to fire a handful of shots in combat anyway with their horrible reload time. And eEC does not really matter for ranged combat anyway...

Throwing Weapons
Basis: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -2
Ability: Master Throw
Pro: Base talent, cheap
Con: Low dmagage, low range
Conclusion: Again, only a good weapon if you pick style of substance. Master throw may knock enemies down, but most of the time dealing wounds is better. But I guess the problem with these comes from the PnP version where all but the best throwing weapons are basicly useless. Actually, you may survive about 10 throwing daggers in your chest if you wear thick clothings... And to hit, you have to get into point black range were an enemy with a spear can already impale you... Bah...

So, for one handed weapons, maces/axes are the weapons of choise for classic tanks with good armor, shield combat and high ST.
Swords, Sabres and Fencing weapons are more for allrounders and low ST characters, with swords being on the damage track and fencing weapons in the feinting/wounding one.
Daggers and brawling is ueseless.

For two handed weapons, 2H-swords and 2H-maces/axes deal very high damage, with 2H-swords being a bit more balanced and 2H-maces/axes being very offensive.
Staves and Spears are versatile (esp. the spear with Rush and Mortal Blow), but unless the range bonus works I think they are not worth it...

For ranged weapons, bow is king. Only if you lack money or AP you should go for crossbows or throwing weapons - and trust me, you can spare those 1000 AP for them...

[Roban Grünstein]

3) Enhancement

One of the most important changes between the 3rd and 4th edition (and similar systems like AD&D) is the new "buying point system" for character enhancement.
In the PnP version, levels have become totally unimportant - although they still play an important role in Drakensang. Instead of having to wait for the next level to increase your stats, you can now pay adventure points to buy improvements.


I) Levels

Levels in Drakensang are (unlike in PnP) important for the maximum possible TAV and allowed spell modifiers. The level of a character depends on his AP gained, not on the AP spent.

Gained AP - Level
0+ -> 1
500+ -> 2
1000+ -> 3
1500+ -> 4
2000+ -> 5
3000+ -> 6
4000+ -> 7
5000+ -> 8
6000+ -> 9
7000+ -> 10
8500+ -> 11
10000+ -> 12
11500+ -> 13
13000+ -> 14
14500+ -> 15
16000+ ->16

16000 AP seem to be the limit for Drakensang.

Formula for maximum talent value
MAX = regular* starting TAV + current character level*2 + 3

In addition, a TAV can never be higher than the highest attribute involved +3.
For melee combat talents, the used attributes are AG, ST, for ranged talents it's DE, AG or ST.

*this means just the plain starting value from race & class - spending your starting AP does not help at all!

Example: Elayoë starts with Plant Lore 2 and Human Nature -2.
At level 1, her max TAV are 2 + 2 + 3 = 7 and -2 + 2 + 3 = 3
At level 5, her max TAV are 2 + 10 + 3 = 15 and -2 + 10 + 3 = 11

For weapon talents and spells:
MAX = regular starting TAV + current character level + 3

Alrik starts with swords 4 and daggers 0.
On level 1, his max TAV are 4 + 1 + 3 = 8 and 0 + 1 + 3 = 4
On level 5, his max TAV are 4 + 5 + 3 = 12 and 0 + 5 + 3 = 8

As you can see it is quite important to choose classes with good starting TAV if you want to become a grandmaster.


II) Costs

All talents, spells and attributes have a learning difficulty reaching from A (very easy) to H (extremly difficult). The higher the difficulty, the more AP you will have to spend increasing the talent.
All regular talents except for body and weapon will use cost factor B (easy), body will use D (medium), weapons reach from C (rather easy) to E (difficult).

Example:
To raise a B talent from 10 to 11 you need 28 AP, a D talent will cost you 55 AP, an E talent 70 AP.

VI and AE use difficulty factor G (very difficult). The first points may be cheap (8 for the first buy), but the 10th will already costs you 250 AP!

Attributes are the most costly ones, using factor H (extremly difficult) and usually cost from 300-600 AP per point.

I am very sorry, but due to copyright issues I cannot provide you with a full sheet of the enhancement costs. If you got hold of the basic ruleset (was part as PDF of the german version), you can find it on page 198.


III) What should I improve?

In general, it is a good idea to max at least one combat talent, other talents should be enhanced depending on playstyle and game progress.
In general a TAV of 7 equals roughly 80% chance of sucess for your talent (with decent attributes), so this is the lowest value were you might want to improve all talents you want to use.

Tage a look at this page to get a feeling for your chances of success:
http://www.heim-d.uni-sb.de/~ludger/dsa/wuerfel.php

Talents can be put in several categories:

MAX talents: Talents that are frequently used, suffer heavy difficult penalties, get huge penefits per TAV point or are used for combat. They should always be maxed asap.
For Drakensang this are: Pick locks, disarm traps, willpower (prevents wounds), all combat talents, frequently used spells and - if you want to use it - haggle.

REG talents: Talents that just need enough TAV to compensate medicore difficulty penalties and do not really benefit from TAP*:
Perception, plant lore, animal lore, survival, treat poison, treat wounds, seduce, etiquette, human nature, fast talk. These talents should be raised to TAV 7-10. After the swamps you might want to increase them to 12-15.

MIN talents: Talents were no skill checks are made or that do not benefit from TAP* at all:
Blacksmith, bowyer, alchemy, some spells like Flim Flam (light spell for the mage), Attributo (stat increasing spell for less important attributs like AG, DE and IN) or the elvish animal summon spell.

Some talents should only be learned by characters left behind in Ardo's mansion: arcan lore and - if you really don't want to spare the AP - all artisam talents (except pick lock and disarm trap ofc). Just train all these unwanted guys with them and only add them to group if you need the skills.

While body talents are useful for everyone (esp. sneaking - if you have one bad sneaker he might blow cover for the whole group), the others should in general not be trained to more than one characer. There is no benefit in raising two characters's seduce talent to 15.

It is a wise idea to raise VI and AE 1-3 times during the early game, maxing your combat talents has highest priority.

Attributes should be raised rather late (from up to 4000 AP).
However, there are two exceptions:
First, raise attributs like CO and ST when you just need one point to get important combat abilities like shield fighter I/II/III, Windmill, Mortal Strike and so on.
Raise attributes if a single point will improve your AT, PA or RC base value.

Later on you might want to max ST to get maximum weapon damage from weapons, esp. (2H) maces and axes. As a little something extra, every two points will increase your VI by 1.
CN is another good choise for fighters, although it is not needed for many talents: each point adds +1 vitality, increases wound treshold by 1 and makes you more resilent to poison and illness.
For lock pickers increased DE is a valid option, but throughout the game you will find many magic items that enhance DE - a value higher than 14 or 15 is usually not needed.

Unlike in the PnP version, you should not raise other attributes, simply because there are too few talents connected to them. In PnP, there are like 30 talents bound to CL, but in Drakensang, there is really no need to boost this attribute.
As a reminder: A single attribute point increases your chances of succes for the related talentes by roughly 2,5%, while adding a point of TAV gives you ~7% for a fraction of the AP cost.


IV) Special abilities

Every character should get the tier 1 skills except for the rather useless Master Parry:

Feint and Mighty Blow make combat much easier, even if you just fight for self defence.
Learn offensive combat I & defensive combat I asap.
These abilities can be fired up to give a +2 bonus to either attack or defence while draining a minimum amount of endurance - very useful throughout the whole game!
Now you might thinka bout getting level II & III. On word: DON'T! They are costly, require many endurance per round when fired up - and you will have better use for that later anyway. Beside: there is no benefit from raising your AT or PA above 19 - which you already reach in the early mid game. Non combat characers with low PA might want to learn defensive combat II and that's an okay, esp. for mages.

I highly recommend using a shield with every character to deal with enemy numbers, so for me shield fighter I/II/III is a must-have for the whole party.
Once you got combat abilities, getting endurance I/II/III is a good choise.

When encumberance from armor starts to rais above eEC, get armor user I/II/III.

Melee fighters should get Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one) to deal with many foes quickly. Strike of Wrath and Mortal Blow are king for the later game.

Ranged characters should learn marksman & mastermarksman asap, endurance is very helpful.


In general around 6000-8000 AP your party should have maxed AT and PA values to 19/19 and use shields with the highest available level of SU.

[Roban Grünstein]

reserved

[Roban Grünstein]

reserved

[Derpas Mata]

Great Roban!!!!!

[Roban Grünstein]

Sticky wood be nice

Hunt for spelling & grammar mistakes will start tomorrow!

edit:
ty!

[Fastjack]

Good job, Rob .

[krathax]

The formulas outlined here do not seem to coincide with what I see in-game;

To test, I did the following...

I have Forgrimm and his AT value is 12 while naked (no clothes or weapons equipped) his base attack is 9...

I would figure if he was naked, his AT value would = his base AT since he has nothing equipped to influence it.

Since no weapons maybe the AT value I am seeing is based on his Brawl skill which is 6 and set for AT 12 and PA 11...maybe I am starting to get these rules...

[sajin]

The formulas outlined here do not seem to coincide with what I see in-game;

To test, I did the following...

I have Forgrimm and his AT value is 12 while naked (no clothes or weapons equipped) his base attack is 9...

I would figure if he was naked, his AT value would = his base AT since he has nothing equipped to influence it.

Since no weapons maybe the AT value I am seeing is based on his Brawl skill which is 6 and set for AT 12 and PA 11...maybe I am starting to get these rules...

Yes, you got it. I guess he has a PA base of 8, resulting in unarmed Attack 12 (9+3) and unarmed Parry of 11 (8+3).

[Roban Grünstein]

Brawl does (of course) influence unarmed AT value.

[Ergonpandilus]

I highly recommend using a shield with every character to deal with enemy numbers, so for me shield fighter I/II/III is a must-have for the whole party.

Yihaa!! Shields for everyone, the Drakensang style.

And why did I had that long thread about shields again...

[Ojisan]

Regarding willpowwer check for wounds - is it regular 3d20 check with +10 modifier?

And regarding dodge - are you hsure you only dodge 1 attack per round in this game? Since when i was fighting mother ratzinsky im pretty shure it was dodging ALOT, DV was all over combat log.

[Roban Grünstein]

Regarding willpowwer check for wounds - is it regular 3d20 check with +10 modifier?

Yes. Though I do not know if it gets more difficult each time for the current combat when you ignore a wound (it is in PnP, but my guess for Drakensang is: no, won't get more difficult).

And regarding dodge - are you hsure you only dodge 1 attack per round in this game? Since when i was fighting mother ratzinsky im pretty shure it was dodging ALOT, DV was all over combat log.

Nope, not 100%.
In PnP you can actually dodge twice by using your parry action AND your free action per round. But then you need to reposition to be able to get back to active combat again and... Well, that would be WAY to complicated for Drakensang.

[Keyser]

Nice work!

[walkir]

Nice work, but there are a few things to remark:

@AE: I'd delete the German part.

Example: Alrik has DE 12 and IN 12, his TAV "Disarm Traps" is 10, he tries to disarm a neat indy trap in the dungeon of black mage Gerwulf:
He rolles on DE/DE/IN, so thats 12/12/12 for his attributes.
The dice show: DE12, DE15, IN 3. The first roll is still equal to his attributes, all fine. For the second, he has to use 3 points from his TAV 10 to reduce it down to 12. The third is lower than twelve and fine again.

It has to be "he has to use 3 points from his TAV 10 to reduce it down to 7."

@Talent maximum: You didn't include the cap at (highest attribute involved]+3.

And a nitpick:It's combat round, not battle round. See the English-German TDE-Dictionary.

[Roban Grünstein]

Thanks for the input!
All fixed.

Btw, max TAV was in:

In addition, a TAV can never be higher than the highest attribute used by it +3.

But guess "involved" sounds way better. Also fixed!

[walkir]

In addition, a TAV can never be higher than the highest attribute used by it +3.

But guess "involved" sounds way better. Also fixed!

Sorry, I somehow missed that.

Edit: Perhaps you could add some things about magic, if only to have the metal armor problem in a FAQ.

[Maelore]

Hi,

Why do you think Master Parry is useless? It seems that always succeeding at Parry / Dodge means you don't have to put points into PV on your weapon, and you don't have to get Shield / Defensive combat abilities for casters.

Thanks for your guide!

[Cleitanious]

Hi,

Why do you think Master Parry is useless? It seems that always succeeding at Parry / Dodge means you don't have to put points into PV on your weapon, and you don't have to get Shield / Defensive combat abilities for casters.

Thanks for your guide!

because like I said in the other thread, Master Parry means you will guarantee to parry the next attack in 15 rounds, not every attack in 15 rounds.