TDE Lore - Battles
Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by virumor on 02.03.2011, 11:36:54
Did the return of the Borbarad change the "feel" of the Aventuria setting? Did it make the setting less fairy-tale like/whimsical and more mature/dark? What was the general view on this in TDE circles?
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virumor - Protagonist
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Farflame on 02.03.2011, 17:35:37
According to Alrik's posts there were general change of attitude in the last years to {little/much?) more dark (corrupted) world. Borbarad' campaign is probably one of the main reasons to that.
For me Aventuria is "magical-medieval" world of different regions. There are both darker lands with bad history and more peacefull areas.
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But I'm worried about Xeledon. He didnt answer for a long time. Maybe he still study Dragon's chronicle campaign.
For me Aventuria is "magical-medieval" world of different regions. There are both darker lands with bad history and more peacefull areas.
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But I'm worried about Xeledon. He didnt answer for a long time. Maybe he still study Dragon's chronicle campaign.
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Farflame - Quest-NPC
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 02.03.2011, 21:13:49
Borbarad's return created the "Black Lands".
And is wrecked chaos upon the land. The mainlands, that is.
And later, the Year Of The Fire (German abbreviation : JDF = "Jahr Des Feuers") did some serious damage to some parts of the mainlands, and created the "Wilderland", a "Land without Law" (the title of a small novella in which Parzalon von Streitzig also appears ...
)
In fact, Aventuria underwent several changes - some rather subtle, some not so much subtle.
The "Realms Of Arcania" Trilogy is already a bit more "grittier" than both Drakensang games. It's just there. More danfgers etc. . But this has also something to do with the setting : It's practically the time of the last great Ork war.
What you see in Drakensang 1 is just a snippet from a greater world, a region among many regions. The war is something almost forgotten there, already - and the Black Lands are far, far away ...
What you see in Drakensang 2 is even rather more supposed to be "the good, old times". Even emperor Hal lived, then ! And Borbarad was something the people just didn't know of ! - Except the Elves, of course, who knew him already from at least one (of several) earlier incarnations ...
What you see of current overland tidings in Drakensang 1 is that some of the companions (read: party members) say a few things on Ferdok when they're walking through the oor man's district of Ferdok. Listen to it ! (If it has been translated, too, that is ...) BÍt is not much, though, but I remember some of them speaking of poor districts of Ferdok (and, implied, in other town's, too) being crowded with refugees from Tobria and from lands close to them.
So, what you see in both Drakensang games is set apart in a way from what's going on in a greater perspective.
And is wrecked chaos upon the land. The mainlands, that is.
And later, the Year Of The Fire (German abbreviation : JDF = "Jahr Des Feuers") did some serious damage to some parts of the mainlands, and created the "Wilderland", a "Land without Law" (the title of a small novella in which Parzalon von Streitzig also appears ...
)In fact, Aventuria underwent several changes - some rather subtle, some not so much subtle.
The "Realms Of Arcania" Trilogy is already a bit more "grittier" than both Drakensang games. It's just there. More danfgers etc. . But this has also something to do with the setting : It's practically the time of the last great Ork war.
What you see in Drakensang 1 is just a snippet from a greater world, a region among many regions. The war is something almost forgotten there, already - and the Black Lands are far, far away ...
What you see in Drakensang 2 is even rather more supposed to be "the good, old times". Even emperor Hal lived, then ! And Borbarad was something the people just didn't know of ! - Except the Elves, of course, who knew him already from at least one (of several) earlier incarnations ...
What you see of current overland tidings in Drakensang 1 is that some of the companions (read: party members) say a few things on Ferdok when they're walking through the oor man's district of Ferdok. Listen to it ! (If it has been translated, too, that is ...) BÍt is not much, though, but I remember some of them speaking of poor districts of Ferdok (and, implied, in other town's, too) being crowded with refugees from Tobria and from lands close to them.
So, what you see in both Drakensang games is set apart in a way from what's going on in a greater perspective.
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Alrik Fassbauer - Aventurier
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Xeledon on 03.03.2011, 10:16:34
Farflame wrote:But I'm worried about Xeledon. He didnt answer for a long time. Maybe he still study Dragon's chronicle campaign.
Indeed I do (I have nearly finished volume three, volume four is said to be released this month), but that is not the main reason. It's simply that I couldn't find the time for another rather longish post at the moment. But I haven't forgotten you and I will give you another in-depth-answer as soon as I will have more time for it.
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
- Pink Floyd
- Pink Floyd
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Xeledon - Veteran
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Xeledon on 10.03.2011, 16:23:35
And now finally back in action and ready for another rather longish posting.
I think that these events are part of the adventure-module "Erben des Zorns" (something like "heirs of rage"). But as I haven't read this module, I actually don't know any details. Yet, Rakorium's paranoia considering the big saurian conspiracy is much older. He was kind of strange from the first moment he appeared in any TDE-publication, but he definitely got weirder and weirder throughout the years. He dedicated his life to the research of ancient saurian magic, ruins and artifacts. Actually I can't remember a time before his paranoia existed, even though it seems to get worse year by year. But definitely, he tried to convince people of the existance of a big saurian conspiracy even long before Borbarad's return, but even at that time everyone thought that - though being a brilliant magician - he has completely gone insane.
I'm not too happy with the way Rakorium is portrayed myself. But you definitely can't twist the story around at some point, in order to make Rakorium be the guy who got it all right from the beginning on. That would destroy his character. Yes, he knows many details and if you listen carefully to what he can tell you, he will give you more facts about the ancient dragons and their saurian servants than anybody else in Aventuria. But his conclusions based on these facts are mostly rubbish and paranoid. So it's difficult to really portray Rakorium as he should (at least in my oppinion) be shown, this is something I also experienced myself playing the pen&paper-game. Therefore I'm not too disappointed about the way Radon Labs dealt with him, but of course their way of showing him had some rather big flaws. And I totally agree with you, that he should have given more pieces of information to the hero of "Drakensang" which would look like rubbish at first, but then proved to be basically true and really helpful in the quest.
Considering the "Dragon's Chronicles":
I think that I already gave you an overview of the main plotline: Pardona wants to bring back her creator Pyrdacor in order to make him a powerful servant of her new boss, the Nameless One. The main theme for the heroes is to discover the "bloodlines" of the six Old Dragons and discover how they bear pieces of Pyrdacor's essence that can be used to bring him back. For the heroes, it starts with an ancient scroll that needs to be decrypted, which takes them to Fuldigor into the Brazen Sword. When they return, they have to finde out more about the "bloodlines" and therefore visit an ancient troll-fortress (where they encounter Pardona basically looking for the same pieces of information), an abbey of pyromants in the Rashtul's Wall and finally the ancient dragon fortress Drakonia (now home of the most mysterious academy for elemental magic in Aventuria). In Drakonia, they find a secret chamber in which the bloodlines of the Old Dragons are written down, engraved in the chamber's walls (being kept up-to-date by ancient magic of course). Afterwards the heroes follow the trails of some dragon cultists that serve Pardona and try to establish a connection to the realm of Zze'Tha by performing some mysterious rituals. The third volume ends with the heroes entering the globule of Zze'Tha through a magic portal.
In the meanwhile, Pardona has manipulated the arcane power-lines flowing through Aventuria in order to use their astral force to establish a connection to Zze'Tha and maybe in the end bring Zze'Tha back to Aventuria. Her manipulations took place at the Demon's Citadel (located in the Brazen Sword) and at the same time she infiltrated different dragon's cults (e.g. the ones led by Malgorra and later her Mantra'ke-sister) with the help of her Dark Elves and used them to gather information, prepare and perform rituals and obtain useful artifacts. When she has all the information she needs and finished her manipulation of arcane-force-flows, she enters Zze'Tha and prepares the ritual that will bring back Pyrdacor at the same place Pyrdacor created her, I think.
The dragons of Aventuria (actually, all of them living in the Third Sphere) seem to feel the foreshadowing of the big events, the research done by Pardona and the heroes might also draw some of their attention to it and so some of them are starting to get more and more interested in the past of their own species. So there are many events somehow linked to the events of the "Dragon's Chronicles" that are just hinted in the campaign modules and not really explained in detail.
In the fourth volume, as I understand, all the big dragons are called to the globule of Zze'Tha (some of them bear parts of Pyrdacor's essence and are therefore needed in some way to bring him back) and the heroes have to forge an alliance against Pardona's plans which might finally end in a big battle of dragons in Zze'Tha. As anything happening there has no direct effects on Aventuria whatsoever, this offers a big opportunity to the authors to have a real epic battle that might finally destroy a whole globule. I am rather intrigued by what will happen to the globule of Zze'Tha after the campaign. It might either be destroyed or it might become a kind of playground for powerful heroes wanting to discover ancient saurian secrets and fighting against really big saurian enemies.
One thing I still don't understand is, how Pyrdacor's carbuncle (considered to be safely hidden underneath the academy in Khunchom but needed to bring him back) will be brought into the story. But that must be part of the fourth volume and I hope that it will be described there.
In the first three volumes there actually isn't much information about Pyrdacor and the Dragon Wars that wasn't published in other sourcebooks before. So maybe there will be something in volume four, but I don't know yet. I rather got the impression that Pyrdacor's past will deliberately be left open to speculations and the campaign itself deals more with his possible future. There is also Fuldigor's prophecy setting the ground for the whole campaign, that tells us that Pyrdacor WILL return. So I'm wondering whether this will in fact happen at the end of volume four and he will then be defeated or whether the heroes manage to stop Pardona's plans, so that Pyrdacor's fate can't be concluded.
That's exactly an important thing for the "Dragon's Chronicles". Pardona seems to need to reach Zze'Tha in order to revive Pyrdacor. Therefore she opens a gate to the globule and the finale of the campaign takes place there. Yet, even floating around somewhere in the limbus, the globule of Zze'Tha is rather hard to reach. If there isn't some sort of gate to a globule, you need to be very experienced in limbic magic if you want to reach certain points in different globules or spheres. The potential threat is not THAT big, because not many people know that Zze'Tha is still out there and even less would ever be able to reach it, let alone coming back from there. So while this keeps most Aventurians out of globules like Zze'Tha, it is not too big an obstacle for Pardona obviously. I'm not quite sure why she doesn't bring Zze'Tha entirely back to the Third Sphere, as there is not too much information about it in the campaign modules, but I guess, if she can manage to bring Pyrdacor back within the globule, it's much safer than bringing him directly into the Third Sphere.
I can only guess about the details here as well, but the place is exactly the same that is later used by Pardona for establishing the gate to Zze'Tha. There are some hints in the third volume of the "Dragon's Chronicles" about the events of 1027 BF, tough. It seems that in this valley, a gateway to Zze'Tha must have existed or at least been quite easy to establish for a long time. Yet, the gate is rather unstable and at the time of the "Dragon's Chronicles", it just opens for some time and then closes again. So Pardona is working on making it a permanent passageway, but couldn't achieve this yet. So I guess, that before Pardona started her work there, the gate might just have opened from time to time for a very short time, I would guess about every decade or something like that (keep in mind, I'm mainly speculating here).
Hmm, I'm not quite sure, whether the gates in "Drakensang" are really leading to Zze'Tha. It could be but they could also lead to the Dragons' Island, where Ardacor took the place of Umbracor and has many followers waiting to attack Mount Drakensang. But of course, Ardacor could also have some followers in Zze'Tha. We can only speculate about Ardacor's plans with Zze'Tha, but I actually don't really think that he would have any at that point. He just wants to gain immortality by swallowing Umbracor's carbuncle, nobody really knows what he would have wanted to do afterwards. Yet, becoming the king of Zze'Tha would have been an option, but only if a permanent gate to the Third Sphere could have been established or the whole globule would have returned to its former place in Aventuria.
I think so, yes. It seems that at the end of this "Age of Heroes" there will be the final fight against the dragons. Yet, I think that this ultimate fight still lies several centuries in the future.
In general, he doesn't like humans to settle down in his mountains. And this makes him a permanent threat for the settlers living there, though he seemed to tolerate a certain number of them. Now, he has become kind of their liege, but at the same time, Tobria accepted his dominion over the Dragon Stones and implicitely agrees to a limit of settlement there. I think, with the amazones, he accepted their castle as they were also somehow guarding his realm from intruders that otherwise he would have had to deal with. I don't really think that the relationship was as intense as with Smardur at Kurkum. Actually, I don't think that Apep would have sacrificed his life to prevent the castle Yeshinna from falling into the hands of the enemy. So, as it should be with dragons, categories like "good" and "evil" are not adequate to describe them completely. I would think of Apep as some grumpy old guy living in his mountains and just wanting to live there alone and in peace. But if you would try to make your living as a peasant in these mountains with such a neighbour living close by, you might be terrified every time he "visits" your village and be glad if he just takes some of your sheep and otherwise leave your village alone. In fact, a dragon like Apep is more like a force of nature than just a big and dangerous animal.
Actually, I don't really know where the roots of the quarrel between the two really lie, but Lessankan served Borbarad and later his heirs (namely Galotta). So now they are both fighting on different sides in this war, but as far as I know, they haven't been a happy family earlier, anyway.
Yeah, Andergast is in each and every respect like a small and antiquated medieval kingdom of our own world. But really, these hillbillies don't count as civilised people anyway...
(Sorry, this is the Nostrian within me speaking...)
So you think, dragon-sex could be a good vehicle of bringing some erotic back into our over-sexed society without admitting that we all are big perverts? Sounds really plausible to me, we should definitely go deeper here then.
Oh, I've never been there, but I found all the discussions about "sex scenes" in recent Bioware-RPGs rather ridiculous. Everything I've seen from it so far seems to bring a little bit of erotic into the games without making some sort of shocking hardcore-Liebesfilm out of it just to provoke worried reactions from prudish censors. But of course, the Americans were prude enough to even find the scenes that are in there rather provocative. For me as a tolerant heterosexual man, it was by far more disgusting, how some people were reacting to the gay-sex-scenes in DAO then the scenes themselves really were (at least as far as I could see on Youtube, I haven't played DOA yet, although it's definitely on my to-buy-list).
The bad thing is that I got the impression that Bioware now feels obliged to always have some softcore-Liebesfilm scenes in their games, whether it's really fitting or not. So how did they deal with discussions about it in their forum?
As I said, there is always the possibility of integrating them into a small unit of specialists for performing special tasks. But if I remember correctly, the biggest hindrance for sending a regular unit of mages into battle, lies in the Mage Wars, that devastated many regions of Aventuria with really big-scale use of combat magic. After these experiences it was agreed upon by the magicians' guilds that the sorcerers should from then on refuse to be utilised in political struggles of that scale. Of course they would be advisors to kings and noblemen or even perform special tasks as "spies", but they were very reluctant to really go to war, which made it impossible to create big wizard-armies or things like that. I don't think that there were any bad consequences for mages fighting in some battles, but it was considered not to be appropriate and therefore most magicians would refuse to do it. Of course, the people fighting for Borbarad didn't care about such restrictions at all, so they supported the armies big time with their magic, which was something the Middle-Realm and its allies weren't prepared for at all.
In some cases, fighting big monsters (like the "Battle of Ogers" for example), I think it would have always been perfectly alright for any magician fighting bravely side-by-side with the army of the Middle-Realm. But if for example the Middle-Realm declared war on Horasia, there would most probably have been a "gentlemen's agreement" that neither side would have been supported by the adepts of their wizard-academies. This also mirrors the arrogance of magicians who tend to think that their research and work is by far more important than these political quarrels, I think. And what's more, as mages are people of the mind, they would be far too intelligent to make good soldiers.
Absolutely! The Borbarad-campaign marks a big turning-point in the history of TDE and the way, authors dealt with Aventuria. This might also be connected to the death of Ulrich Kiesow, the founding father and "creative director" of TDE, who never experienced the publication of the last modules of the campaign. His novel "Das zerbrochene Rad" ("The broken wheel"), which is the only official source on the Borbarad-war in the Bornland, was also published postmortem. Also, right in the middle of publishing the campaign, the company Schmidt Spiele had to face bankruptcy and TDE was now completely taken over by FanPro (which in fact was the company of the minds behind the Dark Eye anyway). So naturally, there were several changes in the organisation structure of TDE that had an influence, but the in-game-changes that the Borbarad-campaign brought with it, formed the basis for a new perspective of Aventuria.
Yet, you mustn't forget, that TDE and Aventuria were always subject to changes. The good thing about the TDE-system is that it was always formed by fans and anyone who had new ideas on how the system should develope had a realistic chance to really change the game and its world. I will try to describe the developement of the system from my own point of view, though I might be wrong in many different places here:
It started out as a classic dungeon-crawl-based pen&paper-game copying many elements of D&D and deliberately changing others. The first adventure moduls were all based on some sort of dungeon, whether it was in the form of a strange forest, a castle, a cavern in the mountains or even a ship. Although at that point some elements were created that later defined entire regions, persons or special things in Aventuria (and of course a lot of running gags), there was not a consistent background world yet, each author could more or less write his own thing without having to consider the work of other authors. This led to some REALLY strange ideas that nowadays have to be ignored or STRONGLY changed in order to fit into what we now know as Aventuria (for example Borbarad's spaceship (!) in the Gor, which provided the setting for a solo-adventure, where you had to defuse the atomic reactor (!) before it exploded or the "Stargate"-like thing which could take you to another planet, which later got interpreted as a magical gate to Myranor).
As more and more things were published, Aventuria grew and started to get filled with important NSCs that re-appeared and had to have an interesting background-story. The classical dungeoncrawling became less important and slowly started to vanish, while big politics started to play a role in the stories (e.g. the roots and motives of Answin, Dexter Nemrod, even Galotta derive from this phase). This is also where the classical fairy-tale view of TDE started. The Middle-Realm was a bright and just kingdom with a nearly perfect organisation, anachronisms like the "secret service" KGIA, big permanent armies or an international sports league (Imman) were established. Most of Aventuria was clean and even the big dark forest was somehow nice, cozy and magical once you got rid of the enormously evil witch or dark magician or priest of the Nameless One living there. The first three TDE-computer-games are set in this period and it is also the time of the epic heroes with big muscles and/or breasts, wearing big horned and/or winged helmets. The great images of Ugurcan Yüce dominate this period, but they also produce a rather silly cliché-image of the world of Aventuria, which still is something many people like.
Of course, within this phase, there were several changes as well (the Orc invasion and the Answin crisis brought some different elements into Aventuria for example), but the real end is marked by the Borbarad-campaign. Suddenly there are really evil forces at work, which also have motives and ambitions, so that they are more like real characters and not just cannon-fodder. And while the whole scale has reached its epic climax, a region is established which is not a bright fairytale-kingdom but a dark land of evil, where there is even room for big horror-scenarios. The fairytale-aspect is not abandoned, but somehow seperated from the big politics and put into certain regions (Andergast/Nostria or the Kosch and Albernia for example). After Borbarad, I think that the authors don't feel obliged to follow the classical TDE-rules set by former publications anymore but try to change them, re-interpret them and bring different new elements into the game. Some of these experiments end up really great, others just don't work out well.
The big problem is the Borbarad-campaign itself, which is so huge in scale, that somehow everyone tries to make his own creations live up to that standard. And though most of this attempts fail, nearly every new adventure module tries to be really epic, closely linked to important changes in Aventurian history and politics, there seems to be no room for the small fairytale-like adventures of the past. This also limits players' freedoms as the big importance of all the events described in these adventures leads too often to railroading elements (which still is one thing many people dislike about TDE-modules). At the same time, the huge amount of "really important new things" showed the limits of this developement. Because of the interconnectedness of each and every publications smaller flaws can't be ignored anymore and grow up to big problems. At the same time, authors desperately try to stick to the "fantastic realism"-claim set a long time ago. Now they start to wonder about how realistic the big armies, the secret service and various other things are and they think about changing some of these things. But how to do it if you still want to stick to the whole background set up?
Now we are approaching the "Year of Fire". It should be a big coup but leaves many people disappointed. On the one hand it tries to be even more epic than the Borbarad-campaign and set some things straight that will lead to a new and better Aventuria, solving some in-game-problems and offering new possibilities of adventuring. On the other hand, some elements in it seem not to work out that well and get a little bit over the top, so that it is far less popular and believable than the Borbarad-campaign. Nevertheless, it somehow marks the beginning of "modern" Aventuria. Some of the fairytale-feeling is brought back, but in a slightly different way. The authors again try new things and stop producing over-the-top-epic-scale-over-ambitioned campaigns but rediscover the smaller, nice adventures that really get into the hearts of players and give them back more freedom than they ever had in TDE. The focus is now slightly shifted to compilations of shorter adventures and even the new big campaign (utterly wrong worktitled "The Next Big Thing") doesn't try to beat the Borbarad-campaign on the big-and-epic-scale. It doesn't try to change the face of Aventuria but trusts on the heroes' abilities to prevent such changes from happening. It shows a steady developement from a rather small adventure to becoming rather epic in the end but trying to make the heroes become the most important thing in the campaign, whereas in the Borbarad-campaign (as much as I love it and still think that in its new editions it is the best TDE-campaign ever written), they heroes often seemed to be just visitors that watched all the big political events happening around them. You may of course have guessed, that I'm talking about the "Dragon's Chronicles" here.
This sums it up quite well. The developement of the Dark Lands just added a new dark-fantasy-side to Aventuria, nevertheless there are still regions where everything is as fairytale-like as it has always been. In general, what I like about the "modern" way of dealing with Aventuria is, that the authors try more and more to see the players in the centre of the world and not just write what seems cool to them at the time but more and more take into account what would be good for certain regions to enable interesting adventures for heroes and not just provide a good platform for nice political articles in the "Aventurian Herold".
Well, considering Borbarad, he was more a myth in the time before his return. People knew his name and knew him to be the baddest magician of all times but then he was defeated by the great Rohal. But that was a long time ago, so he became more something like the boogeyman, something you tell small Alrik-the-Mage of to remind him to always follow the ways of Hesinde or whatsoever. What even after Borbarad's return many people fail to notice is the great cosmological aspect of his existence. In the times of emperor Hal, I think the church of Nandus was the only institution that had a slight hint on this. Of the Non-Human inhabitants of Aventuria, the trolls and the elves would have been the only ones to really have an idea of his multiple incarnations and the eternal struggle against his brother Rohal.
Farflame wrote:Did TDE creators revealed more about Rakorium's expedition In 1025 BF to Rashtul Tower? It was that journey when he was carried off by cultists of Pyrdacor and rescued by some heroes. This experienced was probably one of the most important for his conclusion that there is some big saurian conspiracy.
I think that these events are part of the adventure-module "Erben des Zorns" (something like "heirs of rage"). But as I haven't read this module, I actually don't know any details. Yet, Rakorium's paranoia considering the big saurian conspiracy is much older. He was kind of strange from the first moment he appeared in any TDE-publication, but he definitely got weirder and weirder throughout the years. He dedicated his life to the research of ancient saurian magic, ruins and artifacts. Actually I can't remember a time before his paranoia existed, even though it seems to get worse year by year. But definitely, he tried to convince people of the existance of a big saurian conspiracy even long before Borbarad's return, but even at that time everyone thought that - though being a brilliant magician - he has completely gone insane.
Farflame wrote:I cant understand why Radon Labs screw up Rakorium in the game. Yes, Rakorium is crazy, old and funny, but his insight into dragon/saurian history and dragon cults is related to game story. It should be revealed later in the game, but developers omitted it.
I'm not too happy with the way Rakorium is portrayed myself. But you definitely can't twist the story around at some point, in order to make Rakorium be the guy who got it all right from the beginning on. That would destroy his character. Yes, he knows many details and if you listen carefully to what he can tell you, he will give you more facts about the ancient dragons and their saurian servants than anybody else in Aventuria. But his conclusions based on these facts are mostly rubbish and paranoid. So it's difficult to really portray Rakorium as he should (at least in my oppinion) be shown, this is something I also experienced myself playing the pen&paper-game. Therefore I'm not too disappointed about the way Radon Labs dealt with him, but of course their way of showing him had some rather big flaws. And I totally agree with you, that he should have given more pieces of information to the hero of "Drakensang" which would look like rubbish at first, but then proved to be basically true and really helpful in the quest.
Considering the "Dragon's Chronicles":
Farflame wrote:Could you reveal events in this chronicle? I cant wait to read it.
Its like Drakensang 3. And maybe there is more info about Pyrdacor's past and history of both Dragon Wars (especially role of other big dragons in these wars).
I think that I already gave you an overview of the main plotline: Pardona wants to bring back her creator Pyrdacor in order to make him a powerful servant of her new boss, the Nameless One. The main theme for the heroes is to discover the "bloodlines" of the six Old Dragons and discover how they bear pieces of Pyrdacor's essence that can be used to bring him back. For the heroes, it starts with an ancient scroll that needs to be decrypted, which takes them to Fuldigor into the Brazen Sword. When they return, they have to finde out more about the "bloodlines" and therefore visit an ancient troll-fortress (where they encounter Pardona basically looking for the same pieces of information), an abbey of pyromants in the Rashtul's Wall and finally the ancient dragon fortress Drakonia (now home of the most mysterious academy for elemental magic in Aventuria). In Drakonia, they find a secret chamber in which the bloodlines of the Old Dragons are written down, engraved in the chamber's walls (being kept up-to-date by ancient magic of course). Afterwards the heroes follow the trails of some dragon cultists that serve Pardona and try to establish a connection to the realm of Zze'Tha by performing some mysterious rituals. The third volume ends with the heroes entering the globule of Zze'Tha through a magic portal.
In the meanwhile, Pardona has manipulated the arcane power-lines flowing through Aventuria in order to use their astral force to establish a connection to Zze'Tha and maybe in the end bring Zze'Tha back to Aventuria. Her manipulations took place at the Demon's Citadel (located in the Brazen Sword) and at the same time she infiltrated different dragon's cults (e.g. the ones led by Malgorra and later her Mantra'ke-sister) with the help of her Dark Elves and used them to gather information, prepare and perform rituals and obtain useful artifacts. When she has all the information she needs and finished her manipulation of arcane-force-flows, she enters Zze'Tha and prepares the ritual that will bring back Pyrdacor at the same place Pyrdacor created her, I think.
The dragons of Aventuria (actually, all of them living in the Third Sphere) seem to feel the foreshadowing of the big events, the research done by Pardona and the heroes might also draw some of their attention to it and so some of them are starting to get more and more interested in the past of their own species. So there are many events somehow linked to the events of the "Dragon's Chronicles" that are just hinted in the campaign modules and not really explained in detail.
In the fourth volume, as I understand, all the big dragons are called to the globule of Zze'Tha (some of them bear parts of Pyrdacor's essence and are therefore needed in some way to bring him back) and the heroes have to forge an alliance against Pardona's plans which might finally end in a big battle of dragons in Zze'Tha. As anything happening there has no direct effects on Aventuria whatsoever, this offers a big opportunity to the authors to have a real epic battle that might finally destroy a whole globule. I am rather intrigued by what will happen to the globule of Zze'Tha after the campaign. It might either be destroyed or it might become a kind of playground for powerful heroes wanting to discover ancient saurian secrets and fighting against really big saurian enemies.
One thing I still don't understand is, how Pyrdacor's carbuncle (considered to be safely hidden underneath the academy in Khunchom but needed to bring him back) will be brought into the story. But that must be part of the fourth volume and I hope that it will be described there.
In the first three volumes there actually isn't much information about Pyrdacor and the Dragon Wars that wasn't published in other sourcebooks before. So maybe there will be something in volume four, but I don't know yet. I rather got the impression that Pyrdacor's past will deliberately be left open to speculations and the campaign itself deals more with his possible future. There is also Fuldigor's prophecy setting the ground for the whole campaign, that tells us that Pyrdacor WILL return. So I'm wondering whether this will in fact happen at the end of volume four and he will then be defeated or whether the heroes manage to stop Pardona's plans, so that Pyrdacor's fate can't be concluded.
Farflame wrote:I already wanted to talk about Zze Tha. Because if Pyrdacor hide much of his former realm into a globule, it still flows somewhere in limbus as kind of potential threat. What if some dragon or Pardona or Mantra'ke opens gate to it and awake saurian empire? It wont be probably as big enemy as in the past, but people cant take it lightly.
That's exactly an important thing for the "Dragon's Chronicles". Pardona seems to need to reach Zze'Tha in order to revive Pyrdacor. Therefore she opens a gate to the globule and the finale of the campaign takes place there. Yet, even floating around somewhere in the limbus, the globule of Zze'Tha is rather hard to reach. If there isn't some sort of gate to a globule, you need to be very experienced in limbic magic if you want to reach certain points in different globules or spheres. The potential threat is not THAT big, because not many people know that Zze'Tha is still out there and even less would ever be able to reach it, let alone coming back from there. So while this keeps most Aventurians out of globules like Zze'Tha, it is not too big an obstacle for Pardona obviously. I'm not quite sure why she doesn't bring Zze'Tha entirely back to the Third Sphere, as there is not too much information about it in the campaign modules, but I guess, if she can manage to bring Pyrdacor back within the globule, it's much safer than bringing him directly into the Third Sphere.
Farflame wrote:On wiki there is this info:
in 1027 BF Novadi tribe(s) fight with lizards in some "hidden valley" (? hard to understand). Its said that these lizards came from Zze Tha, but there is no info how did the globule got open. (or did the lizards just live there all the time after Pyrdacor's demise and didnt come from globule?)
I can only guess about the details here as well, but the place is exactly the same that is later used by Pardona for establishing the gate to Zze'Tha. There are some hints in the third volume of the "Dragon's Chronicles" about the events of 1027 BF, tough. It seems that in this valley, a gateway to Zze'Tha must have existed or at least been quite easy to establish for a long time. Yet, the gate is rather unstable and at the time of the "Dragon's Chronicles", it just opens for some time and then closes again. So Pardona is working on making it a permanent passageway, but couldn't achieve this yet. So I guess, that before Pardona started her work there, the gate might just have opened from time to time for a very short time, I would guess about every decade or something like that (keep in mind, I'm mainly speculating here).
Farflame wrote:And Drakensang story is connected to Zze Tha...Spoiler
Hmm, I'm not quite sure, whether the gates in "Drakensang" are really leading to Zze'Tha. It could be but they could also lead to the Dragons' Island, where Ardacor took the place of Umbracor and has many followers waiting to attack Mount Drakensang. But of course, Ardacor could also have some followers in Zze'Tha. We can only speculate about Ardacor's plans with Zze'Tha, but I actually don't really think that he would have any at that point. He just wants to gain immortality by swallowing Umbracor's carbuncle, nobody really knows what he would have wanted to do afterwards. Yet, becoming the king of Zze'Tha would have been an option, but only if a permanent gate to the Third Sphere could have been established or the whole globule would have returned to its former place in Aventuria.
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:the Dwarven "Age of Heroes"
That Age is related to "final fight with dragons", right?
I think so, yes. It seems that at the end of this "Age of Heroes" there will be the final fight against the dragons. Yet, I think that this ultimate fight still lies several centuries in the future.
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:So the common enemy makes Apep an ally to the Middle-Realm, but otherwise he would be a big threat to the people living near him.
Really? But he watches and protects people on his land. He watches over one of the amazon's castles. I thought there is more of a good guy in him than of angry dragon.
In general, he doesn't like humans to settle down in his mountains. And this makes him a permanent threat for the settlers living there, though he seemed to tolerate a certain number of them. Now, he has become kind of their liege, but at the same time, Tobria accepted his dominion over the Dragon Stones and implicitely agrees to a limit of settlement there. I think, with the amazones, he accepted their castle as they were also somehow guarding his realm from intruders that otherwise he would have had to deal with. I don't really think that the relationship was as intense as with Smardur at Kurkum. Actually, I don't think that Apep would have sacrificed his life to prevent the castle Yeshinna from falling into the hands of the enemy. So, as it should be with dragons, categories like "good" and "evil" are not adequate to describe them completely. I would think of Apep as some grumpy old guy living in his mountains and just wanting to live there alone and in peace. But if you would try to make your living as a peasant in these mountains with such a neighbour living close by, you might be terrified every time he "visits" your village and be glad if he just takes some of your sheep and otherwise leave your village alone. In fact, a dragon like Apep is more like a force of nature than just a big and dangerous animal.
Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:Apep on the other hand mostly appears as a powerful ally against the dark lands and there has not been much more information on his other actions and motives in official publications (apart from the struggle with his evil son Lessankan).
What Lessankan did to him?
Actually, I don't really know where the roots of the quarrel between the two really lie, but Lessankan served Borbarad and later his heirs (namely Galotta). So now they are both fighting on different sides in this war, but as far as I know, they haven't been a happy family earlier, anyway.
Farflame wrote:In Andergast there is also some fort of patriarchate. Women have forbidden some professions etc.
Yeah, Andergast is in each and every respect like a small and antiquated medieval kingdom of our own world. But really, these hillbillies don't count as civilised people anyway...
(Sorry, this is the Nostrian within me speaking...
)Farflame wrote:Xeledon wrote:Farflame wrote:Oh - it seems like we are getting more into some adult-lore. I hope these texts wont be censored.
Why should they? I think, we are not discussing anything in an inappropriate way (at least until somebody will find a good example for a dragon hentai...
Well, yes, but dragons could be angered that we try to reveal their very important and hidden "dragon-business" mystery. Its one of the last remaining mysteries about sex nowadays.
So you think, dragon-sex could be a good vehicle of bringing some erotic back into our over-sexed society without admitting that we all are big perverts? Sounds really plausible to me, we should definitely go deeper here then.
Farflame wrote:And as we all know this is not Bioware forum about DAO.
Oh, I've never been there, but I found all the discussions about "sex scenes" in recent Bioware-RPGs rather ridiculous. Everything I've seen from it so far seems to bring a little bit of erotic into the games without making some sort of shocking hardcore-Liebesfilm out of it just to provoke worried reactions from prudish censors. But of course, the Americans were prude enough to even find the scenes that are in there rather provocative. For me as a tolerant heterosexual man, it was by far more disgusting, how some people were reacting to the gay-sex-scenes in DAO then the scenes themselves really were (at least as far as I could see on Youtube, I haven't played DOA yet, although it's definitely on my to-buy-list).
The bad thing is that I got the impression that Bioware now feels obliged to always have some softcore-Liebesfilm scenes in their games, whether it's really fitting or not. So how did they deal with discussions about it in their forum?Farflame wrote:Yes, but there is Academy of sword and magic (if I'm correct) in Gareth. They teaches new battle mages for empire. So they should have some role in an army of some king or liege lord, maybe not strict one as army officers, but still some role.
As I said, there is always the possibility of integrating them into a small unit of specialists for performing special tasks. But if I remember correctly, the biggest hindrance for sending a regular unit of mages into battle, lies in the Mage Wars, that devastated many regions of Aventuria with really big-scale use of combat magic. After these experiences it was agreed upon by the magicians' guilds that the sorcerers should from then on refuse to be utilised in political struggles of that scale. Of course they would be advisors to kings and noblemen or even perform special tasks as "spies", but they were very reluctant to really go to war, which made it impossible to create big wizard-armies or things like that. I don't think that there were any bad consequences for mages fighting in some battles, but it was considered not to be appropriate and therefore most magicians would refuse to do it. Of course, the people fighting for Borbarad didn't care about such restrictions at all, so they supported the armies big time with their magic, which was something the Middle-Realm and its allies weren't prepared for at all.
In some cases, fighting big monsters (like the "Battle of Ogers" for example), I think it would have always been perfectly alright for any magician fighting bravely side-by-side with the army of the Middle-Realm. But if for example the Middle-Realm declared war on Horasia, there would most probably have been a "gentlemen's agreement" that neither side would have been supported by the adepts of their wizard-academies. This also mirrors the arrogance of magicians who tend to think that their research and work is by far more important than these political quarrels, I think. And what's more, as mages are people of the mind, they would be far too intelligent to make good soldiers.
virumor wrote:Did the return of the Borbarad change the "feel" of the Aventuria setting? Did it make the setting less fairy-tale like/whimsical and more mature/dark? What was the general view on this in TDE circles?
Absolutely! The Borbarad-campaign marks a big turning-point in the history of TDE and the way, authors dealt with Aventuria. This might also be connected to the death of Ulrich Kiesow, the founding father and "creative director" of TDE, who never experienced the publication of the last modules of the campaign. His novel "Das zerbrochene Rad" ("The broken wheel"), which is the only official source on the Borbarad-war in the Bornland, was also published postmortem. Also, right in the middle of publishing the campaign, the company Schmidt Spiele had to face bankruptcy and TDE was now completely taken over by FanPro (which in fact was the company of the minds behind the Dark Eye anyway). So naturally, there were several changes in the organisation structure of TDE that had an influence, but the in-game-changes that the Borbarad-campaign brought with it, formed the basis for a new perspective of Aventuria.
Yet, you mustn't forget, that TDE and Aventuria were always subject to changes. The good thing about the TDE-system is that it was always formed by fans and anyone who had new ideas on how the system should develope had a realistic chance to really change the game and its world. I will try to describe the developement of the system from my own point of view, though I might be wrong in many different places here:
It started out as a classic dungeon-crawl-based pen&paper-game copying many elements of D&D and deliberately changing others. The first adventure moduls were all based on some sort of dungeon, whether it was in the form of a strange forest, a castle, a cavern in the mountains or even a ship. Although at that point some elements were created that later defined entire regions, persons or special things in Aventuria (and of course a lot of running gags), there was not a consistent background world yet, each author could more or less write his own thing without having to consider the work of other authors. This led to some REALLY strange ideas that nowadays have to be ignored or STRONGLY changed in order to fit into what we now know as Aventuria (for example Borbarad's spaceship (!) in the Gor, which provided the setting for a solo-adventure, where you had to defuse the atomic reactor (!) before it exploded or the "Stargate"-like thing which could take you to another planet, which later got interpreted as a magical gate to Myranor).
As more and more things were published, Aventuria grew and started to get filled with important NSCs that re-appeared and had to have an interesting background-story. The classical dungeoncrawling became less important and slowly started to vanish, while big politics started to play a role in the stories (e.g. the roots and motives of Answin, Dexter Nemrod, even Galotta derive from this phase). This is also where the classical fairy-tale view of TDE started. The Middle-Realm was a bright and just kingdom with a nearly perfect organisation, anachronisms like the "secret service" KGIA, big permanent armies or an international sports league (Imman) were established. Most of Aventuria was clean and even the big dark forest was somehow nice, cozy and magical once you got rid of the enormously evil witch or dark magician or priest of the Nameless One living there. The first three TDE-computer-games are set in this period and it is also the time of the epic heroes with big muscles and/or breasts, wearing big horned and/or winged helmets. The great images of Ugurcan Yüce dominate this period, but they also produce a rather silly cliché-image of the world of Aventuria, which still is something many people like.
Of course, within this phase, there were several changes as well (the Orc invasion and the Answin crisis brought some different elements into Aventuria for example), but the real end is marked by the Borbarad-campaign. Suddenly there are really evil forces at work, which also have motives and ambitions, so that they are more like real characters and not just cannon-fodder. And while the whole scale has reached its epic climax, a region is established which is not a bright fairytale-kingdom but a dark land of evil, where there is even room for big horror-scenarios. The fairytale-aspect is not abandoned, but somehow seperated from the big politics and put into certain regions (Andergast/Nostria or the Kosch and Albernia for example). After Borbarad, I think that the authors don't feel obliged to follow the classical TDE-rules set by former publications anymore but try to change them, re-interpret them and bring different new elements into the game. Some of these experiments end up really great, others just don't work out well.
The big problem is the Borbarad-campaign itself, which is so huge in scale, that somehow everyone tries to make his own creations live up to that standard. And though most of this attempts fail, nearly every new adventure module tries to be really epic, closely linked to important changes in Aventurian history and politics, there seems to be no room for the small fairytale-like adventures of the past. This also limits players' freedoms as the big importance of all the events described in these adventures leads too often to railroading elements (which still is one thing many people dislike about TDE-modules). At the same time, the huge amount of "really important new things" showed the limits of this developement. Because of the interconnectedness of each and every publications smaller flaws can't be ignored anymore and grow up to big problems. At the same time, authors desperately try to stick to the "fantastic realism"-claim set a long time ago. Now they start to wonder about how realistic the big armies, the secret service and various other things are and they think about changing some of these things. But how to do it if you still want to stick to the whole background set up?
Now we are approaching the "Year of Fire". It should be a big coup but leaves many people disappointed. On the one hand it tries to be even more epic than the Borbarad-campaign and set some things straight that will lead to a new and better Aventuria, solving some in-game-problems and offering new possibilities of adventuring. On the other hand, some elements in it seem not to work out that well and get a little bit over the top, so that it is far less popular and believable than the Borbarad-campaign. Nevertheless, it somehow marks the beginning of "modern" Aventuria. Some of the fairytale-feeling is brought back, but in a slightly different way. The authors again try new things and stop producing over-the-top-epic-scale-over-ambitioned campaigns but rediscover the smaller, nice adventures that really get into the hearts of players and give them back more freedom than they ever had in TDE. The focus is now slightly shifted to compilations of shorter adventures and even the new big campaign (utterly wrong worktitled "The Next Big Thing") doesn't try to beat the Borbarad-campaign on the big-and-epic-scale. It doesn't try to change the face of Aventuria but trusts on the heroes' abilities to prevent such changes from happening. It shows a steady developement from a rather small adventure to becoming rather epic in the end but trying to make the heroes become the most important thing in the campaign, whereas in the Borbarad-campaign (as much as I love it and still think that in its new editions it is the best TDE-campaign ever written), they heroes often seemed to be just visitors that watched all the big political events happening around them. You may of course have guessed, that I'm talking about the "Dragon's Chronicles" here.
Farflame wrote:According to Alrik's posts there were general change of attitude in the last years to {little/much?) more dark (corrupted) world. Borbarad' campaign is probably one of the main reasons to that.
For me Aventuria is "magical-medieval" world of different regions. There are both darker lands with bad history and more peacefull areas.
This sums it up quite well. The developement of the Dark Lands just added a new dark-fantasy-side to Aventuria, nevertheless there are still regions where everything is as fairytale-like as it has always been. In general, what I like about the "modern" way of dealing with Aventuria is, that the authors try more and more to see the players in the centre of the world and not just write what seems cool to them at the time but more and more take into account what would be good for certain regions to enable interesting adventures for heroes and not just provide a good platform for nice political articles in the "Aventurian Herold".
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:What you see in Drakensang 1 is just a snippet from a greater world, a region among many regions. The war is something almost forgotten there, already - and the Black Lands are far, far away ...
What you see in Drakensang 2 is even rather more supposed to be "the good, old times". Even emperor Hal lived, then ! And Borbarad was something the people just didn't know of ! - Except the Elves, of course, who knew him already from at least one (of several) earlier incarnations ...
Well, considering Borbarad, he was more a myth in the time before his return. People knew his name and knew him to be the baddest magician of all times but then he was defeated by the great Rohal. But that was a long time ago, so he became more something like the boogeyman, something you tell small Alrik-the-Mage of to remind him to always follow the ways of Hesinde or whatsoever. What even after Borbarad's return many people fail to notice is the great cosmological aspect of his existence. In the times of emperor Hal, I think the church of Nandus was the only institution that had a slight hint on this. Of the Non-Human inhabitants of Aventuria, the trolls and the elves would have been the only ones to really have an idea of his multiple incarnations and the eternal struggle against his brother Rohal.
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
- Pink Floyd
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Xeledon - Veteran
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 10.03.2011, 20:15:29
Xeledon wrote:There is also Fuldigor's prophecy setting the ground for the whole campaign, that tells us that Pyrdacor WILL return.
Well, the Last Age is said to be the Nameless One's, isn't it ?
Xeledon wrote:Farflame wrote:According to Alrik's posts there were general change of attitude in the last years to {little/much?) more dark (corrupted) world. Borbarad' campaign is probably one of the main reasons to that.
For me Aventuria is "magical-medieval" world of different regions. There are both darker lands with bad history and more peacefull areas.
This sums it up quite well. The developement of the Dark Lands just added a new dark-fantasy-side to Aventuria, nevertheless there are still regions where everything is as fairytale-like as it has always been.
My personally greatest complain about "modern aventuria" is, that this "fairy-tale asoect" might be there - but "we" don't see much of it anymore.
I must emphasise, however, that I'm talking from a very limited perspective of someone who gains almost all of his knowledge from the aventurian "Newspaper", the "Aventurischer Bote", which Xeledon translated as "The Aventurian Herold".
I've just read "Das Ferdoker Pergament" through (which is a novel with a side-story of Drakensang 2), and there the "fairy-tale aspect" is much greater than I personally perceive it of "modern Aventuria".
I'm missing this. I think I should develop my own "fairy-tale aspects" for my own fantasy universe (I've already begun so in tiny bits).
Nowadays, I just wonder where the "Evolution Of Aventuria" will lead to. The most interesting recent product is The Dark Times, which is a box containing information on the "Dark Times" fter the First Demon Battle of Fran-Horas, the founding Emperor of the scientific research site we all know as the so-called, but incorrectly named "Elven Ruins" in Drakensang 2 - and Bosparan's Fall.
The next big projects are the so-called "setting boxes", containing material on completely different continents/regions of the whole world of which Aventuria is just one continent among several ones ...
The next of these projects is Uthuria, the "South Continent", and for later Tharun is plannd, what was originally conceived as the inner "cave world" of the Aventurian world (Dere or Ethra in English, I think), but was later retconned as a Globule of its own (like Zzhe Tha is one).
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Alrik Fassbauer - Aventurier
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Xeledon on 11.03.2011, 11:22:01
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:Well, the Last Age is said to be the Nameless One's, isn't it ?
I think so, yes. It must culminate in the last battle of the forces of Alveran against the chaotic forces of the demons. It might be interesting, which part the Nameless One himself will play in this. You may call me blasphemic, but if it is "Gods vs. Demons", he might join either side, depending on whether he will become even more badass than he is now or whether he will regret his deeds and return to the Good Guys of Alveran (tm).
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:My personally greatest complain about "modern aventuria" is, that this "fairy-tale asoect" might be there - but "we" don't see much of it anymore.
It depends on the publications you are reading. In the sourcebooks you will find that these classic TDE-style is now limited to the aforementioned regions, while most of the books provide a different image, the one of modern Aventuria. There also aren't that many of the old-fashioned fairy-tale-Aventurian adventure modules anymore, as most authors don't really seem to like writing them, so you mostly have to construct your own stories in these special regions. Yet, as there are adventure anthologies instead of single-adventure-modules, most of them focus on smaller stories that are naturally far closer to the old-fashioned TDE-style than the big ambitious campaigns. Thematically they are usually rather diverse and so you might find a "good old-fashioned fairy-tale" next to an "epic secrets-of-the-past episode". There have been two compilations so far that only contain REAL fairy-tale-adventures ("Verwunschen & Verzaubert" und "Märchenwälder, Zauberflüsse"), that are by nature even more fairy-talish than the basic setting of the "old" Aventuria, maybe you would love them (I don't own them so unfortunately I can't tell you any details about them). So I think that the "fairy-talish old-school Aventuria" is still out there, but it's not the main focus of the authors anymore and therefore you have to look more carefully to find it in official publications.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:I must emphasise, however, that I'm talking from a very limited perspective of someone who gains almost all of his knowledge from the aventurian "Newspaper", the "Aventurischer Bote", which Xeledon translated as "The Aventurian Herold".
As for the "Aventurian Herald", it naturally deals mostly with big politics, because the small stories don't make good newspaper articles. Yet, I think the new structure of the "Herald" is a good thing, breaking up the really narrow timeline (2 Aventurian months per issue have to be filled with more than 20 pages of big politics? At some point it had to become inaccessible for anyone but the real die-hard-TDE-nerds...) and seperating the inner-Aventurian-part (now 8 pages) more clearly from the real-world-part (I think about 30 pages at the moment?), where there are gathered some background materials for gamemasters and players as well as pieces of information on new products, some rule-extensions and things like that. Some of the scenarios in the "Herald" have a bit of the "old-school-TDE-feeling" but I have to admit that usually, the big politics are in the focus of the paper, which seems a rather natural thing to me.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:I've just read "Das Ferdoker Pergament" through (which is a novel with a side-story of Drakensang 2), and there the "fairy-tale aspect" is much greater than I personally perceive it of "modern Aventuria".
Yes, it also was very well-written and definitely one of the best TDE-novels I've read. And it perfectly brings the flair of "River of Time" into a book.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:I'm missing this. I think I should develop my own "fairy-tale aspects" for my own fantasy universe (I've already begun so in tiny bits).
Well, of course you can leave Aventuria to rediscover these aspects, but I think you might be able to bring them to Aventuria as well. Depending on the setting you are looking for, you might find places in Albernia, the Kosch, Andergast or even the Wildermark that are just perfect for "classical" TDE-adventuring and fairytale-stuff.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:Nowadays, I just wonder where the "Evolution Of Aventuria" will lead to.
Yes, that's always an interesting question. I personally like that it doesn't stand still. And as I said, the players themselves have a lot of influence on the developement of Aventuria if they care to tell their point of view in some internet-forums (though the number of trolls there makes it very hard to be heard sometimes, I think), by working on some fan-project (there are plenty of them and the TDE-authors always were very kind in supporting such projects, as an example, I can again recommend our great DereGlobus-Project
) or by simply talking to the authors on Cons like the RatCon. I think, at the moment, the direction is just taking some steps back from the immensely epic and political world-changing stuff and trying to give greater freedom to the players and their characters, which I really like. And personally I have become rather fond of the work of Uli Lindner who - in my oppinion - drives the developement of Aventuria in a very good direction (he was for example responsible for much of the "Dunkle Zeiten"-stuff and also for the "Wildermark"-setting, if I remember correctly).Alrik Fassbauer wrote:The most interesting recent product is The Dark Times, which is a box containing information on the "Dark Times" fter the First Demon Battle of Fran-Horas, the founding Emperor of the scientific research site we all know as the so-called, but incorrectly named "Elven Ruins" in Drakensang 2 - and Bosparan's Fall.
Definitely! The box is really great and allows players for the first time to really enter an entirely different period of Aventurian history.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:The next big projects are the so-called "setting boxes", containing material on completely different continents/regions of the whole world of which Aventuria is just one continent among several ones ...
I don't really see them as THE important TDE-products to come. They will be more of a "special-interest-addendum" to the system, though the "Dark Times"-box was really a phenomenal start for this product-line. And it brought back the boxed-format that TDE had for a very long time (mostly because at that time they didn't think it could be sold in bookstores but wanted to bring it to the toy-stores where any serious boardgame-fan would have had problems with a book-format). Anyway, they plan to release one of these boxes a year and so naturally they won't be the most important products for the system at this time, but they are definitely a really interesting thing. And as I think we can both agree upon, the "Dark Times"-box was simply the best TDE-product of the last year both for its innovative concept and for its great quality.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:The next of these projects is Uthuria, the "South Continent", and for later Tharun is plannd, what was originally conceived as the inner "cave world" of the Aventurian world (Dere or Ethra in English, I think), but was later retconned as a Globule of its own (like Zzhe Tha is one).
You are mixing things up a bit here. Uthuria will NOT be released in this boxed-format. It will be discovered in a special TDE-campaign that will be released in the usual hardcover-adventure-module-format. The campaign itself will take some time to publish and most certainly will be followed by some publication that will provide a description of the continent and its differences to Aventuria. But as far as I know, this won't be released within the next twelve months and they haven't even decided about a possible format for this as yet. This year, Ulisses in fact plans to release the Tharun-box. Originally the "hollow earth"-concept for it was conceived for the two "TDE Professional"-boxes that were supposed to provide adventure-stuff for heroes that have reached level 21, but it wasn't really successful and therefore, the concept of the new ruleset and the new world were given up. Tharun lived on in some fan-projects, but now there will be an official description of it again in the aforementioned box (I think we can expect it to be released at this year's RatCon). Indeed, it now is said not to exist "inside" of Dere, but to be another globule, so that they can use the "hollow earth"-concept without producing big contradictions to the spherical model of Dere.
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 11.03.2011, 14:09:12
Okay, then I seemingly did mix things up - I had always thought it'd be a box ... Hence I'm quite a bit disappointed that it won't be the case ... Tharun is actually far less interesting to me than Uthuria, personally ...
Regarding the Dark Times box : I still haven't got it, since it is very expensive for me (yes, I'm not joking !). But I'm definitively planning to buy it.
Regarding shaping Aventuria itself : Sometimes I wish I could just write for Aventuria ... But then I noticed tht there seems to exist no "fan fiction" at all ? I only know of a really tiny amount of stories ... I get the impression as if there really is no "fan fiction" section for Aventuria itself ...
But on th ther hand : I often read that people actually dismiss the novels because they are not "canon", and only the rule books and baxckground books are ... For whom should I write, then ß For those who wouldn't accept my stoies anyway because they believe tht they just aren't Aventuria ? No, I won't b writing for them. And their voices are dominant in the official forums, that' why I don't see any chance ...
And if I'd write for Aventuria, then I would have to be aware of the COMPLETE rules set ... SO MANY background books, adventures and rule book to buy ! - Because otherwise what I'd write wouldn't be accepted at all.
The standard is very, very high in my point of view - too high.
Only insiders who have a profound knowledge of Aventuri are able to write novels.
Hence I think it is no wonder that Das Ferdoker Pergament was so good : He was for a long time part of the staff ... Anyone else wouldn't be able to write down such a detailed story of Aventuria, imho.
But enough ranting. There are too many points right now which I don't like ... And too many developments I don't like as well. I feel that I'm slowly drifting more and more away from Aventuria ... I think I should rather concentrate on my own fantasy setting ... Of which people will of course say it's only a rip-off of some other settings, like Aventuria, for example ...
Regarding the Dark Times box : I still haven't got it, since it is very expensive for me (yes, I'm not joking !). But I'm definitively planning to buy it.
Regarding shaping Aventuria itself : Sometimes I wish I could just write for Aventuria ... But then I noticed tht there seems to exist no "fan fiction" at all ? I only know of a really tiny amount of stories ... I get the impression as if there really is no "fan fiction" section for Aventuria itself ...
But on th ther hand : I often read that people actually dismiss the novels because they are not "canon", and only the rule books and baxckground books are ... For whom should I write, then ß For those who wouldn't accept my stoies anyway because they believe tht they just aren't Aventuria ? No, I won't b writing for them. And their voices are dominant in the official forums, that' why I don't see any chance ...
And if I'd write for Aventuria, then I would have to be aware of the COMPLETE rules set ... SO MANY background books, adventures and rule book to buy ! - Because otherwise what I'd write wouldn't be accepted at all.
The standard is very, very high in my point of view - too high.
Only insiders who have a profound knowledge of Aventuri are able to write novels.
Hence I think it is no wonder that Das Ferdoker Pergament was so good : He was for a long time part of the staff ... Anyone else wouldn't be able to write down such a detailed story of Aventuria, imho.
But enough ranting. There are too many points right now which I don't like ... And too many developments I don't like as well. I feel that I'm slowly drifting more and more away from Aventuria ... I think I should rather concentrate on my own fantasy setting ... Of which people will of course say it's only a rip-off of some other settings, like Aventuria, for example ...
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Farflame on 29.03.2011, 22:32:07
Xeledon wrote:And now finally back in action and ready for another rather longish posting.
Great. We already missed it.
Xeledon wrote:Farflame wrote:Did TDE creators revealed more about Rakorium's expedition In 1025 BF to Rashtul Tower? It was that journey when he was carried off by cultists of Pyrdacor and rescued by some heroes. This experienced was probably one of the most important for his conclusion that there is some big saurian conspiracy.
I think that these events are part of the adventure-module "Erben des Zorns" (something like "heirs of rage"). But as I haven't read this module, I actually don't know any details.
Is here someone who knows this module and can tell us more? At least in german...
Xeledon wrote:discover the "bloodlines" of the six Old Dragons and discover how they bear pieces of Pyrdacor's essence that can be used to bring him back.
You mean that all Old Dragons like Teclador, Nosulgor etc... have "essence" of Pyrdacor in their blood? How could they? I thought that only Pyrdacor's sons or daughters can have some.
Xeledon wrote:infiltrated different dragon's cults (e.g. the ones led by Malgorra and later her Mantra'ke-sister)
Malgorra has a sister?
Xeledon wrote:The potential threat is not THAT big, because not many people know that Zze'Tha is still out there and even less would ever be able to reach it, let alone coming back from there. So while this keeps most Aventurians out of globules like Zze'Tha, it is not too big an obstacle for Pardona obviously. I'm not quite sure why she doesn't bring Zze'Tha entirely back to the Third Sphere, as there is not too much information about it in the campaign modules, but I guess, if she can manage to bring Pyrdacor back within the globule, it's much safer than bringing him directly into the Third Sphere.
And what about Umbracor and other Ancient Dragons? Did they went inside Zze Tha when Pardona opened the gate or you didnt get there yet (probably in 4th book)? Is there some hint about the fate of Teclador, Aldinor or Nosulgor?
Xeledon wrote:Farflame wrote:On wiki there is this info:
in 1027 BF Novadi tribe(s) fight with lizards in some "hidden valley" (? hard to understand). Its said that these lizards came from Zze Tha, but there is no info how did the globule got open. (or did the lizards just live there all the time after Pyrdacor's demise and didnt come from globule?)
I can only guess about the details here as well, but the place is exactly the same that is later used by Pardona for establishing the gate to Zze'Tha. It seems that in this valley, a gateway to Zze'Tha must have existed or at least been quite easy to establish for a long time. Yet, the gate is rather unstable, it just opens for some time and then closes again. So Pardona is working on making it a permanent passageway, but couldn't achieve this yet. So I guess, that before Pardona started her work there, the gate might just have opened from time to time for a very short time, I would guess about every decade or something like that (keep in mind, I'm mainly speculating here).
Is there hinted who created this unstable gate? It seems like some mage tried to open the gate in the past but was only partially successfull. Or is it some sort of "relic" that appeared there when the globule was created?
Xeledon wrote:Hmm, I'm not quite sure, whether the gates in "Drakensang" are really leading to Zze'Tha. It could be but they could also lead to the Dragons' Island, where Ardacor took the place of Umbracor and has many followers waiting to attack Mount Drakensang. But of course, Ardacor could also have some followers in Zze'Tha. Yet, becoming the king of Zze'Tha would have been an option, but only if a permanent gate to the Third Sphere could have been established or the whole globule would have returned to its former place in Aventuria.
You are probably right, because Drakensang mountain was meeting point of dragons and it seems natural to have there some gate to Dragon Island. But in the game there is said its gate to limbus, so it must be text mistake. Another explanation is that in fact the dwarves dont know where the gate is leading so they talk gibberish, but why would they talk about limbus? Its probably mistake.
Xeledon wrote:I don't really know where the roots of the quarrel between the two really lie, but Lessankan served Borbarad and later his heirs (namely Galotta). So now they are both fighting on different sides in this war, but as far as I know, they haven't been a happy family earlier, anyway.
Well, I doubt dragons have family bonds like people. They are strong individuals and very teritorial monsters.
Or do some dragons live in groups, small tribes?
-------
Dragon cultists - There are more groups of dragon cultists and most of them worship Pyrdacor. I wonder if they cooperate. It shouldnt be problem for Malgorra and her Mantra'kim to get more groups together (she probably did it but I doubt all dragon cultists fough for her).
In Drakensang there are few weapons labeled as Meadowian (Meadow/Wiesen?)? Is there something special about this country or the weapons? I didnt see any.
Do trolls have some kind of quick regeneration as trolls in Faerun/AD&D?
In 1031 BF there were kidnapped heir of the Kosh throne - Anshold of Boarstock (Eberstamm) and his wife Nadyana. I found out that they actually escaped from castle with the help of some friends and went to Firntrutz (?) in good reason. BUt I didnt know that reason. A ton of german text is hard obstacle for me
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 30.03.2011, 22:06:48
Farflame wrote:Malgorra has a sister?
Yes, she has.
And in the novel "Das Ferdoker Pergament" another Mantra'Ke" is mentioned ...
In Drakensang there are few weapons labeled as Meadowian (Meadow/Wiesen?)? Is there something special about this country or the weapons? I didnt see any.
The area of Weiden could have been meant.
This could most likely be a translation error : The word "Weide" means both "meadow" and "willow", the tree. The tree which is called Willow in the English language is actually called "Weide" in the German language.
And Weiden is a ... duchy or dukedom (word translated via dict.leo.org). It is considered as (among a few other areas) THE starting area for new aventurian heroes.
Weiden is a duchy with a (still) strong chivalrous culture.
Do trolls have some kind of quick regeneration as trolls in Faerun/AD&D?
No, no, not at all. Forget everything you know about (A)D&D trolls when you deal with Aventurian trolls ! There is (as far as I know) no similarity between both at all - except the name !
The trolls we see within the games are a kind of degenerated remains of a once great culture ... Thousands of years ago ... Elsewhere, aventurian Trolls might still have a strong culture, but both Drakensang games just don't portrait them as such.
In 1031 BF there were kidnapped heir of the Kosh throne - Anshold of Boarstock (Eberstamm) and his wife Nadyana. I found out that they actually escaped from castle with the help of some friends and went to Firntrutz (?) in good reason. BUt I didnt know that reason. A ton of german text is hard obstacle for me
I don't know. Do you have a link for me ?
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by ali69 on 31.03.2011, 01:31:27
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:Farflame wrote:Malgorra has a sister?In Drakensang there are few weapons labeled as Meadowian (Meadow/Wiesen?)? Is there something special about this country or the weapons? I didnt see any.
The area of Weiden could have been meant.
This could most likely be a translation error : The word "Weide" means both "meadow" and "willow", the tree. The tree which is called Willow in the English language is actually called "Weide" in the German language.
And Weiden is a ... duchy or dukedom (word translated via dict.leo.org). It is considered as (among a few other areas) THE starting area for new aventurian heroes.
Weiden is a duchy with a (still) strong chivalrous culture.Do trolls have some kind of quick regeneration as trolls in Faerun/AD&D?
No, no, not at all. Forget everything you know about (A)D&D trolls when you deal with Aventurian trolls ! There is (as far as I know) no similarity between both at all - except the name !
The trolls we see within the games are a kind of degenerated remains of a once great culture ... Thousands of years ago ... Elsewhere, aventurian Trolls might still have a strong culture, but both Drakensang games just don't portrait them as such.In 1031 BF there were kidnapped heir of the Kosh throne - Anshold of Boarstock (Eberstamm) and his wife Nadyana. I found out that they actually escaped from castle with the help of some friends and went to Firntrutz (?) in good reason. BUt I didnt know that reason. A ton of german text is hard obstacle for me
I don't know. Do you have a link for me ?
pasture could be meant also
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 31.03.2011, 11:01:20
Okay, but you didn't need to quote the whole thing for that ...
The complete list of translations for "Weide" by dict.leo.org : http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=d ... arch=Weide
Plus, "weiden" can be a verb, too : http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=d ... rch=weiden
The complete list of translations for "Weide" by dict.leo.org : http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=d ... arch=Weide
Plus, "weiden" can be a verb, too : http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=d ... rch=weiden
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Farflame on 31.03.2011, 16:22:20
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:Farflame wrote:Malgorra has a sister?
Yes, she has.
Do you know something about her? Why she didnt appear in Drakensang? "Tough family" (no friendly bonds with Malgorra)?
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:In Drakensang there are few weapons labeled as Meadowian (Meadow/Wiesen?)? Is there something special about this country or the weapons? I didnt see any.
The area of Weiden could have been meant.
This could most likely be a translation error : The word "Weide" means both "meadow" and "willow", the tree. The tree which is called Willow in the English language is actually called "Weide" in the German language.
Weiden is a duchy with a (still) strong chivalrous culture.
Ahy, my mistake, I meant Weiden, not Wiesen. The game takes place in Kosh. I just wondered why there are several weapons mentioned from Weiden and not from other counties/baronies? Or did some famous blacksmith live there or something... But its probably just coincidence.
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:In 1031 BF there were kidnapped heir of the Kosh throne - Anshold of Boarstock (Eberstamm) and his wife Nadyana. I found out that they actually escaped from castle with the help of some friends and went to Firntrutz (?) in good reason. BUt I didnt know that reason. A ton of german text is hard obstacle for me
I don't know. Do you have a link for me ?
Here:
http://www.koschwiki.de/index.php?title ... nzenpaares
There is whole loooong story. Unfortunately not in english.
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Xeledon on 06.04.2011, 11:14:51
Ah, now you made me start reading the fourth volume of the "Dragons' Chronicles" immediately after buying it. There is much information about Zze Tha in it, which allows gamemasters to use it for scenarios after the end of the "Dragons' Chronicles". So Zze Tha won't be destroyed and it will somehow become easier after the "Dragons' Chronicles" to reach the globule through some gates to the Third Sphere. Yet, I still haven't found an answer to the gate in the Khôm the heroes are using. I imagine that it existed since the globule was created, but just opened rather seldomly until Pardona manipulated the "Kraftlinien" (is there a good translation in use for this term yet? I neither like "magic force-field-lines" nor "astral lines" nor "arcane line" or anything else like this) and thus strengthened the connection to the globule there, as there are some hints to the portal being used before (e.g. by Yalstene).
But still, I think it will be best if I wait with the next excessiv answer until I have finished reading. Just two short things in advance (I put them in Spoiler-Tags, although the first one doesn't reveal much, the second is a major spoiler towards the end of the campaign):
Yalstene:
The finale:
So sorry that this posting is just a small teaser, an in depth answer to all the questions raised above will follow when I have finished reading the last volume of the "Dragons' Chronicles"...
But still, I think it will be best if I wait with the next excessiv answer until I have finished reading. Just two short things in advance (I put them in Spoiler-Tags, although the first one doesn't reveal much, the second is a major spoiler towards the end of the campaign):
Yalstene:
Spoiler
The finale:
Spoiler
So sorry that this posting is just a small teaser, an in depth answer to all the questions raised above will follow when I have finished reading the last volume of the "Dragons' Chronicles"...
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 06.04.2011, 14:33:28
Farflame wrote:Alrik Fassbauer wrote:Farflame wrote:Malgorra has a sister?
Yes, she has.
Do you know something about her? Why she didnt appear in Drakensang? "Tough family" (no friendly bonds with Malgorra)?
I don't know, I'm sorry, and the background book doesn't elaborate about her either ...
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:In Drakensang there are few weapons labeled as Meadowian (Meadow/Wiesen?)? Is there something special about this country or the weapons? I didnt see any.
The area of Weiden could have been meant.
This could most likely be a translation error : The word "Weide" means both "meadow" and "willow", the tree. The tree which is called Willow in the English language is actually called "Weide" in the German language.
Weiden is a duchy with a (still) strong chivalrous culture.
Ahy, my mistake, I meant Weiden, not Wiesen. The game takes place in Kosh. I just wondered why there are several weapons mentioned from Weiden and not from other counties/baronies? Or did some famous blacksmith live there or something... But its probably just coincidence.
No, "Weide" = "Wiese", actually !
Only that "Weide" is usually a "feeding ground" for animals (for cows, for example), meanwhile a Wiese isn't, usually.
And the duchy of Weiden is just known for certain styles of weapons, I guess ...
It's like with the beer from the Kosch : The Kosch is known in Aventuria for a few things ... and for it's beer, of course !
Everone knows that good beer comes from the Kosch !
It's similar with wine from certain regions of Europe ... Certain wares are just region-specific ...
@Xeledon : Had to inspect the spoilers ...
Spoiler
Spoiler
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Farflame on 17.05.2011, 18:30:59
I find out that Malgorra takes over leadership of Yalstene's dragon cult, so it seems that either Malgorra is no friend with Yalstene (they fight over leadership) or Yalstene went on some log journey so Malgorra takes charge instead of her.
Here:
http://www.koschwiki.de/index.php?title ... nzenpaares
Alrik, did you already find out the truth about "abduction" of the prince?
---------
Aside from previous topics about Zze Tha and dragons, I stumbled upon other matters...
Does Prenn's Grove (in Tallon) mean something? Was Prenn someone from history or what?
I wonder if Draconites know the story about Teclador and Liscom of Fasar who defeated him. Is it known tale or mostly only heroes who helped Teclador know it.
Similar topic - did dwarves know that Famerlor defeated Pyrdacor in 2nd Dragon War and probably killed him by own hands (claws)? I'm interested if nation of dragon-haters share some respect for Famerlor who ended the war? Or do dwarves tell this myth differently, for example that Pyrdacor was defeated by their beloved god Ingerimm (Angrosch) or some big minion of Ingerimm?
Alrik Fassbauer wrote:Farflame wrote:In 1031 BF there were kidnapped heir of the Kosh throne - Anshold of Boarstock (Eberstamm) and his wife Nadyana. I found out that they actually escaped from castle with the help of some friends and went to Firntrutz (?) in good reason. BUt I didnt know that reason. A ton of german text is hard obstacle for me
I don't know. Do you have a link for me ?
Here:
http://www.koschwiki.de/index.php?title ... nzenpaares
Alrik, did you already find out the truth about "abduction" of the prince?
---------
Aside from previous topics about Zze Tha and dragons, I stumbled upon other matters...
Does Prenn's Grove (in Tallon) mean something? Was Prenn someone from history or what?
I wonder if Draconites know the story about Teclador and Liscom of Fasar who defeated him. Is it known tale or mostly only heroes who helped Teclador know it.
Similar topic - did dwarves know that Famerlor defeated Pyrdacor in 2nd Dragon War and probably killed him by own hands (claws)? I'm interested if nation of dragon-haters share some respect for Famerlor who ended the war? Or do dwarves tell this myth differently, for example that Pyrdacor was defeated by their beloved god Ingerimm (Angrosch) or some big minion of Ingerimm?
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 17.05.2011, 19:23:17
As far as I know, the Dwarves know almost everything about their foes - the dragons.
So I believe they might already know about Pyrdacor having been killed by Farmerlor.
The dwarves had been involved in the war against Pyrdacor and his henchdragons (;) ) in the first place !
It was - as far as I understood it - through this war that the Geodes came to be - an from the Geodes all aventurian Druids developed ...
So I believe they might already know about Pyrdacor having been killed by Farmerlor.
The dwarves had been involved in the war against Pyrdacor and his henchdragons (;) ) in the first place !
It was - as far as I understood it - through this war that the Geodes came to be - an from the Geodes all aventurian Druids developed ...
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by virumor on 20.05.2011, 00:10:23
I'm currently playing the Phileasson expansion and my party is in Tie'Shianna.
There are some things I do not understand, however. The Elves of Tie'Shianna are worshipping Pyr'Dracon. I assume this is Pyrdacor? It don't understand why they would still worship the dragon that (in)directly caused their downfall by creating Pardona.
What I like about the expansion is that the residents of Tie'Shianna are quite world-strange due to their thousands of years of isolation from the rest of the world.
There are some things I do not understand, however. The Elves of Tie'Shianna are worshipping Pyr'Dracon. I assume this is Pyrdacor? It don't understand why they would still worship the dragon that (in)directly caused their downfall by creating Pardona.
What I like about the expansion is that the residents of Tie'Shianna are quite world-strange due to their thousands of years of isolation from the rest of the world.
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Farflame on 20.05.2011, 11:31:25
Short explanation:
Pyrdacor was the guardian of elements. In older eons elves in fact worshipped god/lord of elements named Pyr. They didnt know that Pyr is Pyrdacor, because he didnt appear before them as dragon, but as different entity. So he cheated elves and abuse his power over elements. He gave some of this power to the elves so they could build their elemental cities. For elves he was probably some kind of "Mada-like entity", because part of elven magic is a gift from Pyrdacor (his influence wasnt probably as big as that of Mada). So elves listen to Pyrdacor and revered him as god and that make Pyrdacor happy for sure.
He also created Pardona for this purpose (she was also revered by elves), but her mind was corrupted by Nameless One who wasnt ally of Pyrdacor, so she later switched sides. But this is different story....
Much later big prophet, giantess Chalwe, told elves the truth and they refused their allegiance to Pyr. I'm not sure how the elves view these events now in time of Philleasson. I assume that elves are intelligent and somehow accepted own faults and mistakes in history (unlike nowadays IRL when some uneducated idiots, religious fanatics and politicians tend to rewrite history for propaganda reasons). So they could still worship Pyr/Pyrdacor, but in different manner now. He can be seen as old godly giver of elemental magic, but he is not big god anymore. They know he was evil, he was Destroyer of worlds. So they should see him this way. I am afraid that lore is often badly represented in Drakensang series, especially in english version of the first game. Many important details from lore are omitted or just badly interpretted. But I dont know how much info is given about Pyrdacor/Pyr in Philleassons Secret.
---------
So Famerlor may be the only one dragon who is revered by dwarves as good one.
Pyrdacor was the guardian of elements. In older eons elves in fact worshipped god/lord of elements named Pyr. They didnt know that Pyr is Pyrdacor, because he didnt appear before them as dragon, but as different entity. So he cheated elves and abuse his power over elements. He gave some of this power to the elves so they could build their elemental cities. For elves he was probably some kind of "Mada-like entity", because part of elven magic is a gift from Pyrdacor (his influence wasnt probably as big as that of Mada). So elves listen to Pyrdacor and revered him as god and that make Pyrdacor happy for sure.
He also created Pardona for this purpose (she was also revered by elves), but her mind was corrupted by Nameless One who wasnt ally of Pyrdacor, so she later switched sides. But this is different story....Much later big prophet, giantess Chalwe, told elves the truth and they refused their allegiance to Pyr. I'm not sure how the elves view these events now in time of Philleasson. I assume that elves are intelligent and somehow accepted own faults and mistakes in history (unlike nowadays IRL when some uneducated idiots, religious fanatics and politicians tend to rewrite history for propaganda reasons). So they could still worship Pyr/Pyrdacor, but in different manner now. He can be seen as old godly giver of elemental magic, but he is not big god anymore. They know he was evil, he was Destroyer of worlds. So they should see him this way. I am afraid that lore is often badly represented in Drakensang series, especially in english version of the first game. Many important details from lore are omitted or just badly interpretted. But I dont know how much info is given about Pyrdacor/Pyr in Philleassons Secret.
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Alrik Fassbauer wrote:As far as I know, the Dwarves know almost everything about their foes - the dragons.
So I believe they might already know about Pyrdacor having been killed by Farmerlor.
So Famerlor may be the only one dragon who is revered by dwarves as good one.
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Farflame - Quest-NPC
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Re: TDE Lore - Battles
by Alrik Fassbauer on 20.05.2011, 12:35:59
Tie'Shianna "lives" in a continuous time-circle, I heard, something like the same happening over and over again, endlessly.
Plus, the journey into it is actually a journey thousands of years back in time.
And third, Tie'Shienna "lives" in its own "globule", and as such, it is separated from the rest of the world.
This is how I understood it.
Plus, the journey into it is actually a journey thousands of years back in time.
And third, Tie'Shienna "lives" in its own "globule", and as such, it is separated from the rest of the world.
This is how I understood it.
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Alrik Fassbauer - Aventurier
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